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My 2
cents,
I don't see a
problem with some sort of small "Subscription" fee, I'd like to get the
newspaper for free but I seem to have to pay a subscription fee for it.
Also, I'm curious as to what will be the cost to set up a "List
Server", anyone of us is free to setup an "Un-official SmartCAM Tech Support"
Website, List server, Newsgroup, or whatever mechanism we
chose.
I subscribe to a
Forum service for Visual FoxPro (http://www.universalthread.com),
it cost like $70.00 bucks a year. Or you can opt for the free subscription which
limits your ability to search threads and other stuff. I had the $70.00
paid for with one questioned answered, which saved me a weeks worth of trial and
error. I'm sure the same holds true for this list. Also
lets not forget how specialized a piece of software like SmartCAM is, its
not Microsoft Word, which everyone seems to have.
Let Gregg and
John figure out some cost, before we start complaining about possible
subscription fee's
And that's all I
have to say about that (spoken like Forest Gump)
:)
Jon
Well its here now .... But it doesn't
just come out of thin air. UGS-PLM is supplying a server (notice
it says sdrc.com) and someone who maintains that server when there are
problems and an adminstator for the list who maintains that when there
are problems, and since they've signed this contract with me, they don't
expect to continue having to do that. They are expecting that I
will take it over. I'm either going to have to go through some
kind of list vendor, or go through my hosting service, or get a server of my
own and then get it set up and move the accounts over. I
haven't tried to figure out all the costs yet but surely something like
$5 or $10 an account would probably cover it.
People have to understand that I'm not SDRC
or EDS. I don't have an IT department already in place.
I don't have a bunch of servers already on hand that I can put stuff on
and extra people to do the work, I didn't already have a website or an
internet connection when I signed the contract and I don't have a bunch
of other product lines that are already generating income. John
and I are bootstrapping this thing up. Once we get things up and going
we may have to assess whether we need to go out and seek outside capital,
but we chose not to go that route to begin with because we didn't
want to have some sort of venture capitalist/return on investment type
person with their fingers in the pie.
Besides as I said, it will be
credited towards any future maintenance or product you get, so you
can think of it as a down payment on that.
--gregg
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:16
AM
Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail
list
I agree, can't see how you can charge
for this mailing list, it's already here. Somebody else will start one up if
this one gets taken over and then this fine body of SmartCAM user will
become fragmented.
Maybe MRS should start another
'official' on-line help group, with a nominal charge for subscribing but
with a guarantee that your query will be answered.
Don't forget, I make a living
supporting SmartCAM, writing macros and code-generators, doing training
and programming but that doesn't stop me giving stuff to the group for free.
How many of you would pay for the stuff I post?
Bill in the UK.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:45
AM
Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail
list
Well, I first bought smartcam production mill
in 1989. I upgraded periodically, and in 98 bought up to freeform
11.5. All in all, I have about $12,000 invested in
smartcam. Then, I was owner of a 6 man job shop, now I
am a sole owner/operator of my company. I don't particularly want
employees anymore.
I don't use macro's, mostly because I was
never shown how, and I am busy enough as it is to not spend the time
learning. I guess they are great, but I am just a ham handed
programmer that mostly uses the program to do multi-position jobs and
small parts.
I am happy that SmartCam is once again going
to progress, however I sure don't need to automatically have a bill show
up for the priviledge of still being on this group list. These guys
are tremedously helpful for the questions I seem to have
periodically. This program does all I want right now, and has for
the last 4 years. I sure don't need a $1200 bill for "maintaining"
my old product.
Don't alianate your user base by starting
with charges. I wish you good luck on this project, and I look
forward to seeing future progress.
Jon Baker
Bag Parts Intl. Corp.
Portland, OR
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003
10:44 PM
Subject: [mfg-smartcam] this mail
list
Hello everyone!
I'm sure some of you were wondering if I
really existed or whether I was just a product of John Gent's
imagination.
Its been great to see the response on this
mail list, and I thought the first thing I should share with you
are my thoughts on the list itself.
I've seen a couple questions on what's
going to happen to this list?
Well ... eventually MRS is going to
have to take over responsibility for the list So at the very
least, its going to necessitate a server change at some point. But
we'd like to take it further than that. Currently there are only
333 subscribers to the list and not all of them are even SmartCAM
customers. Even so, that's only a tiny fraction of the
number of people we estimate who are still using SmartCAM in the
world today. What we'd like to do is make it a membership
based list that's for active customers and subscribers and
other key SmartCAM community members. That way we will be able to
share more confidential support information and business planning
information with the list than I feel we currently can give
out, given the current list membership. (I'm sure
the gentleman from Gibbs who is a current member of the
list would understand.)
I see membership in the
list being included if you're a part of the 'current' customer
base. That means if you're on active maintenance or
have a current version from MRS that includes
maintenance you would automatically have free membership.
If you were a customer but not active, in other
words, you have an older version and you're not on
maintenance, then you could join the list for a small admin fee.
If however you're not really a customer, dealer or some other
trusted member of the community (but say a competitor for
instance) you would not be allowed membership to the list.
I understand that things we publish to the list will eventually
get out if someone wants it bad enough, I just don't want to mail
it to them directly.
I'd like to see the list continue to carry
the kinds of technical discussions and Q&A that it currently does,
but I'd also like to develop it as primary vehicle for delivering
company and product announcements, tech tips, support info, etc.
For it to be truly effective however we need to expand it to include a
much larger segment of the customer base. This can have both
positive and negative effects. It makes for a much larger
knowledge pool to tap into, but it might also have the effect of
lowering the standards for communications on the list.
That leads me to list
etiquette. This list has always operated at a very high
level. If the list membership begins to expand, we would like to
count on the original membership to set an example and help maintain
that high level of integrity. We see the members of this list as
probably being the most representative of the type of customer we want
to have and keep. Surprisingly, when we conducted our survey last
year, we discovered there are still a small number of SmartCAM
users who are completely unconnected with no internet or email at work
OR at home. Unfortunately we may have to leave some of them
behind. We aren't going to have the resources to do onsite
visits. We will need to conduct a lot more business (product and
services) over the phone and internet.
Finally, I saw a comment in one of the
earlier responses to 'buy American'. I want to
remind everyone that SmartCAM is a worldwide product, and the
membership of this list reflects that. We all need
to remain aware of that as we post here. Now, having
said that, I think I understand the sentiment behind the
statement, so given the global nature
of SmartCAM, I think the phrase 'support a living wage' conveys that
same sentiment and honors the global nature of this forum, and is
something we support here at MRS.
Thanks again for all the encouraging
responses,
--gregg
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