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Today's Topics:
1. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
2. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Ken Bogart)
3. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
4. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
5. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
6. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (derf)
7. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
8. RE: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Bill Cardell)
9. Re: My Turn: Engine Seized? (Chad J. Douglas)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:03:09 -0400
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
To: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>, Stephanie Turner
<[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID: <c863ac5d.10808%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Crappity crap crap crap.
There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
the
cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack in
the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
(it's
REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer firmly
fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering the
teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
was
causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able to
see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume that
somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and that
this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being installed
somehow.
Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
could
the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm stumped,
and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
combo
again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
I'm
looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
still in the car to free it.
I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it, and
only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the crank
bolt using the same method.
Something's got the engine held fast.
On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <[email protected]> wrote:
Well, we'll see soon enough.
Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
---------------------------
Chad Douglas
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
Stephanie
BEGi / Bell Engineering
Phone: 830.438.2890
Fax: 830.438.8361
www.bellengineering.net
Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
Sign up for our Email Newsletter
-----Original Message-----
From: derf [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
manual and auto cars?
I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:06:57 -0400
From: Ken Bogart <[email protected]>
To: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Its got to be the transmission. Sounds like its time to pull the engine
again... If you're still at it Tuesday, I can come over and heckle....
Ken
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Chad J. Douglas
<[email protected]>wrote:
Crappity crap crap crap.
There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
the
cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the slack
in
the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
(it's
REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer firmly
fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but levering
the
teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure if the starter
was
causing the bind, and since the starter was now loose, I would be able to
see the starter move somewhat and get a small amount of engine movement.
Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume that
somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the engine...and
that
this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo was being installed
somehow.
Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
could
the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
stumped,
and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and tranny
combo
again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot of labor...so
I'm
looking for any other ideas for things that can be done with the engine
still in the car to free it.
I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it, and
only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the crank
bolt using the same method.
Something's got the engine held fast.
On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, we'll see soon enough.
>
> Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
>
> ---------------------------
> Chad Douglas
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner <
[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> BEGi / Bell Engineering
>> Phone: 830.438.2890
>> Fax: 830.438.8361
>> www.bellengineering.net
>>
>> Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an e-mail.
>> Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
>>
>> Sign up for our Email Newsletter
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: derf [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
>>
>> The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
>> manual and auto cars?
>> I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Miatapower mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
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>> Miatapower mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:15 -0600
From: "Bill Cardell" <[email protected]>
To: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>, "Stephanie Turner"
<[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hmm. How about this? Maybe you didn't get the torque converter seated
into the trans properly, so instead of it sliding onto splines, it's
jammed, making the tq converter stick out too much? That's my new vote.
Bill Cardell
TurboDog's Dad
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmwestfield.com
Sales 1-800-359-6957
Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out
http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:03 PM
To: Chad J. Douglas; Stephanie Turner
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Crappity crap crap crap.
There's nothing under the valve cover, and it's not anything to do with
the cams, since I can turn the cams with a wrench until I take up the
slack in the timing chain. And I found nothing up there.
I removed the lower starter bolt and was able to loosen the upper one
(it's REALLY tight in there!) and I can move the starter..it's no longer
firmly fixed to the engine. So, I tried to make the engine turn but
levering the teeth on the flexplate via the inspection hole.. I figure
if the starter was causing the bind, and since the starter was now
loose, I would be able to see the starter move somewhat and get a small
amount of engine movement.
Nope. Nothing. Still like the engine is welded. I can only assume
that somehow the transmission/torque converter is holding the
engine...and that this must've occurred while the engine / tranny combo
was being installed somehow.
Any ideas? Is the torque converter on the NC a lockup converter, and
could the lockup be locked and somehow the transmission be locked? I'm
stumped, and my next course of action would be to remove the engine and
tranny combo again to get better access to everything, but that's a lot
of labor...so I'm looking for any other ideas for things that can be
done with the engine still in the car to free it.
I even tried putting a ratchet with a cheater bar on the crank bolt and
tried to turn it backward a little to "free" whatever was locking it,
and only succeeded in loosening the crank bolt! So, I re-tightened the
crank bolt using the same method.
Something's got the engine held fast.
On 7/14/10 2:09 PM, "Chad Douglas" <[email protected]> wrote:
Well, we'll see soon enough.
Steph--call me this evening when you get a few minutes.
---------------------------
Chad Douglas
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Stephanie Turner
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Starter for the MT and AT should be the same.
Stephanie
BEGi / Bell Engineering
Phone: 830.438.2890
Fax: 830.438.8361
www.bellengineering.net
Please include all previous correspondence when replying to an
e-mail.
Prices quoted are good for 30 days.
Sign up for our Email Newsletter
-----Original Message-----
From: derf [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
The starter bendix might be jammed. Is the starter the same for
manual and auto cars?
I'd pull the starter and plugs and see if it turns by hand.
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:42:07 -0600
From: derf <[email protected]>
To: Bill Cardell <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think you're on to something. Aren't you supposed to bolt the
torque converter to the flex plate AFTER the motor/trans are bolted
together?
"The motor turned over just fine by hand while I was bolting the
torque converter to the flexplate.
Then, we installed the engine, and I proceeded to hook everything up. "
You can bolt the TC on first but then it is sometimes hard to line up
the splines and or the flats on the TC with the tranny input shaft and
trans pump.
Does the Miata auto TC have flats that engage the trans pump like
other cars? If so, he might have damaged his pump.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:18 -0400
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
To: derf <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID: <c863df7e.1082b%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Putting this reply back to the list so everyone interested can see:
Yes. Here's the process:
Engine and tranny are out of the car.
I put the tq onto the input shaft of the tranny
I mated the tranny to the engine, whilst simultaneously sliding the tq
studs
through the holes In the flexplate.
I then put enough (but not all) the tranny bolts in to fully mate the
engine
and transmission.
I then turned the motor over slowly to expose each tq stud so that I could
put the nuts on. I installed all 4 nuts. I turned the engine one moer
complete revolution to check them all.
I then installed the starter.
We then put the engine/tranny combo into the car.
I did not try to turn the engine over again until the engine was fully
installed and ready to test-fire.
On 7/14/10 9:34 PM, "derf" <[email protected]> wrote:
So, it turned after the motor/tranny bolts were tightened?
If so you need to pull the starter all the way off. Loosening the
bolts might not be good enough if the bendix is stuck to the
flexplate.
Something is missing. More information is needed. Did you bolt the
tranny to the motor and then install them together?
Or, did you install the tranny with the motor in place?
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:04:09 -0600
From: derf <[email protected]>
To: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached to
it.
Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
when you tilted to do the drop in.
Inquiring minds want to know.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:13:03 -0400
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
To: derf <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID: <c863e6ef.10832%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, I consulted AllData.
I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
align
the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to remove
that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on a lift.
I'm doing this on jackstands.
I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know anything
until sometime on Saturday.
On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <[email protected]> wrote:
Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached to
it.
Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
when you tilted to do the drop in.
Inquiring minds want to know.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:53:44 -0600
From: "Bill Cardell" <[email protected]>
To: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>, "derf"
<[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
Bill Cardell
TurboDog's Dad
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6967 (sales)
970-464-5600 (tech support)
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmwestfield.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
To: derf
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Well, I consulted AllData.
I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
a lift.
I'm doing this on jackstands.
I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
anything until sometime on Saturday.
On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <[email protected]> wrote:
Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
to it.
Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
when you tilted to do the drop in.
Inquiring minds want to know.
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
[email protected]
http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:15:03 -0400
From: "Chad J. Douglas" <[email protected]>
To: Bill Cardell <[email protected]>, derf <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Message-ID: <c863f577.10838%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yup. Plugs out. Even a hydrolocked engine will move a little. This
engine
will not turn one micron. It's like it's welded.
On 7/14/10 10:53 PM, "Bill Cardell" <[email protected]> wrote:
Any chance it's hydrolocked? Have you had the plugs out?
Bill Cardell
TurboDog's Dad
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6967 (sales)
970-464-5600 (tech support)
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmwestfield.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chad J. Douglas
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:13 PM
To: derf
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Turn: Engine Seized?
Well, I consulted AllData.
I think Bill's right. The procedure calls for using a screwdriver to
align the oil pump drive and I did not do that.
It's possible that it's the starter, but it will be a REAL BEAR to
remove that starter with the engine in the car without having the car on
a lift.
I'm doing this on jackstands.
I'll be sure to report back when I do more testing. I won't know
anything until sometime on Saturday.
On 7/14/10 10:04 PM, "derf" <[email protected]> wrote:
Pull the starter all the way out. See if the bendix is still attached
to it.
Unless something was loose in the motor or trans and it became lodged
when you tilted to do the drop in.
Inquiring minds want to know.
_______________________________________________
Miatapower mailing list
[email protected]
http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
------------------------------
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End of Miatapower Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
*****************************************
