Rob, Not a controller here, so this may be a dumb question: - I assume new controllers will stay at whatever airport they're trained at. So does that mean the trainers' experience & knowledge limit the number of available trainers? If yes, I'm sure trainees begin at smaller airports, which would mean a *very* small pool of trainers.
Mike Borfitz On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 1:31 PM Robert Mark via Mifnet < [email protected]> wrote: > Unfortunately, much of what I read in the WaPo article rang true even back > to my days as a controller in the 1970s, Kathryn. Back then, most of us new > folks were ex-military. Me from the Air Force. But nothing quite prepared > me for the training I experienced then. It was tough, but not unfair, to me > at least. I made it through after about 18 months in a busy tower in > Chicago. But the style some trainers used would get them tossed out of a > high school if they tried to teach the way they did in the tower. > > Something that was not mentioned in the story is that every certified > controller is *required* to become a trainer. And not everyone wants to > do it, which means some of them are lousy at it. Controllers get paid an > extra bonus amount on top of their base pay - at least they did in my day - > when they act as an instructor, so many struggle through it for the money. > But the agency doesn't give anyone a choice to train new controllers or > not. And the responsibility of watching a trainee learn is no easy task, > especially when it's busy. Just like an instructor teaching someone to fly, > you sometimes need to let the student get themselves in a corner and fight > their way out for the learning experience. But of course, the instructor > needs to stay just far enough ahead of the situation to jump in and save > the day if necessary. > > Again, just like some flight instructors are lousy teachers, there are > always going to be lousy ATC instructors as long as we demand everyone do > that job. However, this problem isn't new and I don't hear any new ideas > coming out of the FAA. But right now, they're so focused on digging > themselves out from under the infrastructure calamity they also created, > this is barely a blip on their radar, I think. > > Rob Mark > > > > > > Rob Mark, *MRAeS*, & CEO, *CommAvia* <http://www.commavia.com>, *Creators > of leading-edge media for the aviation industry.* > 847-864-9780 (office) > 847-644-1575 (mobile) > 2400 Grant Street > Evanston, IL 60201 > > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 07:31 Kathryn Creedy via Mifnet < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> My latest post to LI on WaPo article on controller training. >> >> I'd love to hear Doug on this. He's often so insightful. >> >> We often speak of #culture in #aviation but there seems no more >> #toxicculture than that of #airtrafficcontroller training. You know you >> have a real problem when the culture is described as "mean girls." >> >> >> In the #aviationtraining community. a powerful movement is afoot to >> reform #training to personalize it for success. #ATC training is >> designed to make you fail. No wonder we have such a shortage and it seems a >> shortage of our own making. The #ATCtraining system is counterproductive. >> >> >> Do we have a system a la #pilots in which veteran pilots repeat the >> dehumanizing treatment they were given in their youth? A lot of #pilots >> are still like that. "I had to endure, so must they." >> >> >> That attitude is so outdated. As I said to my daughters when they adopted >> "mean girl" attitudes, what would happen if you build them up rather than >> put them down?" We'd have a different world and more controllers. >> >> >> https://wapo.st/4f6jf62 >> >> >> Cheers -- Kathryn >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Kathryn Creedy >> PHONE # 321 405 4395 >> US-Eastern Time Zone >> *Twitter*: @kcreedy >> *Visit me on LinkedIn* >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. 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See instructions at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via >> email: >> [email protected]?subject=help >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > [email protected] > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > [email protected] > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=help > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > -- Mike Borfitz, DER Cell 206-714-8797 e-Mail: [email protected] Kilroy Aviation LLC Website: WWW.FAAODA.COM <http://www.faaoda.com/> Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety - International validation & safety matters - Program & system management - FAA STC ODA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
