*"The CEO of LAWA is saying āif the FAA doesnāt consider this scheduled serviceā (and current definitions say it isnāt) āthen thereās nothing we can do to prohibit itā by limiting an airportās operations to scheduled service."* COMMENT: The CEO of LAWA is hedging, it appears. There is little doubt in my mind that the FAA's attempt to redefine "scheduled service" in any rulemaking it might complete, it has little bearing on LAWA's prohibition which would remain grandfathered. The prohibition does not rely on particular federal definitions of air carriers, but simply on the term "scheduled service" using a common sense definition. VNY has for the better part of 50 years banned ALL "scheduled" flights, no matter whether by a certificated scheduled air carrier (airline), a charter operator, 135, or any other carrier for that matter. Many over the years tried, some even announcing service. LAWA has held fast, refusing to approve any such operations. The FAA's meager attempt to change definitions has no bearing on LAWA's long standing and clearly enunciated prohibition. It does matter, either, whether the proposed operation is from a "terminal" or a leasehold, or an FBOl. All are banned.
*"Iām pretty certain that I recall a brief window (late 1970s or early 1980s) where limited commercial traffic to VNY was permitted. Didnāt last long. Part of my memory here was triggered when the topic came up on Mifnet, as I remembered the city codeāwhich I wouldnāt have done if people had not flown there. Iāve no idea how the details may have been managed."* COMMENT: David, you have an excellent memory. I believe one operator who tried was called Air Spur, using helicopters. I have forgotten the names of the others. I was at LAX from 1973 until 2002 or so, serving for some years as General Counsel. As to each announcement over the years that we learned about, it was responded to immediately with a letter unequivocally stating scheduled service in any form or format was prohibited at VNY. We would observe that LAX and Burbank were nearby and open to them.. The residents of the San Fernando Valley living near VNY would rise up in revolt were LAWA to open VNY airport to scheduled service. I am surprised that LAWA's CEO would be so ambivalent on such a volatile issue. I presume he has little information on the past history of the issue and has not yet faced the absolute organized hostility of valley residents when such noise increasing proposals are floated . (I recall many meetings vividly. We had to have police presence to ensure safety.). BKL On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at 1:17āÆPM David Wardell via Mifnet < [email protected]> wrote: > Historical Note: > > > > Iām pretty certain that I recall a brief window (late 1970s or early > 1980s) where limited commercial traffic to VNY was permitted. Didnāt last > long. Part of my memory here was triggered when the topic came up on > Mifnet, as I remembered the city codeāwhich I wouldnāt have done if people > had not flown there. Iāve no idea how the details may have been managed. > > > > DW > > > > *David Wardell* > > (757) 561-0582 > > [email protected] > > <https://wardell.us/url/b5s86> > > <https://wardell.us/url/s9qvz> > > > > > > *From:* Gary Leff via Mifnet <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 28, 2025 2:50 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* 'breton lobner' <[email protected]>; [email protected] > *Subject:* [Mifnet š° 73891] Re: what is a "semi private" flight? > > > > As I noted a couple of messages below in this string, the CEO of LAWA > wrote last August that they cannot prohibit āby the seatā scheduled > charters at VNY > > > > > https://www.iflyvny.com/sites/vny/files/documents/VNY%20CAC%20-%20Policy%20Motion%20Response%2020240819.pdf > > > > āLAWA is on the record as opposed to the Part 380 ācharter by the seatā > operations occurring at VNY, and our team worked last year to introduce > legislation and provided comment to the U.S. Department of Transportation > (USDOT) asking that airport operators have greater authority to regulate > Part 380 operators at a general aviation airport like VNY. While we are not > currently able to regulate these activities, we hope in the future the > federal government develops rules that will restrict these types of > operations at general aviation airports like VNY.ā > > > > Best, > > Gary Leff > > > > > > > > *From:* breton lobner via Mifnet <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 28, 2025 1:15 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* breton lobner <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Mifnet š° 73889] Re: what is a "semi private" flight? > > > > To my knowledge, VNY continues to prohibit scheduled air carrier > operations. I have not seen any document or action that has changed this > prohibition. It is a policy that dates back to before the 1970s and it has > been enforced for many years (I have no recent information if LAWA > management or the Board have changed the rules). The restriction pre-dates > ANCA (the federal law that preempted airports from adopting new noise > abatement restrictions). Charter flights are allowed, but not if they are > "transformed" into scheduled operations with tickets being sold to the > general public. BKL > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 5:36āÆPM Gary Leff via Mifnet < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Jack, > > > > The FAA opened a regulatory docket. Administrator Whitaker indicated in > June 2024 that a proposed rulemaking would be promulgated by the end of > 2024, and that was followed by a formal notice ( > https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-ensuring-safe-public-charter-flights-exploring-future-solutions-all-flyers) > but while it was added to the unified agenda ( > https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?RIN=2120-AM05&pubId=202410) > this did not happen. > > > > As far as public documents reveal, the planned Safety Risk Management > Panel was never convened. > > > > And the issue appears to have been deprioritized, but not formally > withdrawn (JSX wrote to the FAA asking for withdrawal in April). > https://downloads.regulations.gov/FAA-2025-0725-0001/attachment_1.pdf > > > > I would not expect that with the confirmation of Bryan Bedford as FAA > Administrator that *extending the 1,500 hour rule *for co-pilots to more > operations would be a priority. > > > > Cheers, > > Gary > > *From:* Jack Keady via Mifnet <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2025 6:36 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* Jack Keady <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Mifnet š° 73883] Re: what is a "semi private" flight? > > > > keady to paraphrase :"hell hath no fury greater than airport neighbors > getting more noise and traffic" > > > > Ques - wasn't/isn't this whole issue still under review? > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 2:40āÆPM Gary Leff via Mifnet < > [email protected]> wrote: > > JSX is operating out of TEB (they are actually not the only ones..) They > restrict the flights to their loyalty program members, rather than selling > the flights to all comers. They arenāt āholding outā for sale to the > general public so donāt violate the airport prohibition on flights held out > to the public for sale. I wrote about this recently > https://viewfromthewing.com/jsx-just-unlocked-access-to-nycs-forbidden-private-jet-airport-heres-the-secret-to-booking-a-seat/ > > > > My first thought with the Aero VNY service, based on the linked article, > was that this was a Four Seasons charter ā but Aero does sell the seats on > their website. So I looked a bit more into it and it appears that the > restrictions arenāt as tight as at TEB ā they prohibit scheduled > operations, adopting the FAAās definition (which doesnāt include scheduled > charters sold under part 380), and while they donāt like it they donāt > believe they have the legal authority to stop it at VNY. See item 4 from > the CEO of LAWA here > https://www.iflyvny.com/sites/vny/files/documents/VNY%20CAC%20-%20Policy%20Motion%20Response%2020240819.pdf > > > > Best, > > Gary Leff > > > > > > *From:* breton lobner via Mifnet <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2025 3:09 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* breton lobner <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Mifnet š° 73879] Re: what is a "semi private" flight? > > > > Last time I checked, scheduled service was not permitted at VNY. Have the > rules changed? BKL > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2025, 11:43āÆAM Jack Keady via Mifnet < > [email protected]> wrote: > > keady - does this mean a GA type airport (Van Nuys) ifs now hosting > scheduled service? > > > > > https://www.luxurytraveladvisor.com/transportation/aero-and-four-seasons-maui-launch-semi-private-flights-la-hawaii?utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl&utm_campaign=TAC-NL-Daily&oly_enc_id=7021D0698090E6R > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > [email protected] > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > [email protected] > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. 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