So it's training flights on AA321 in anticipation of 138-minutes ETOPS proving flights on AA321XLR.
Your turn, Karl. ---------------------------------------- *From: *srbrown via Mifnet <[email protected]> *To: *[email protected] *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]>; srbrown <[email protected]> *Date: *2025-09-26T09:31:03Z *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74334] Re: AA empty flights > I had to look up ROFL. How sad is that? > > ETOPs, to me, falls into that special category of aviation topics that > includes spinning, night flying, altimetry and what you're supposed to do at > approach minima. By which I mean almost everyone goes around saying that > these things are "not a big deal", but then waste hundreds of man hours by > turning them into the very "big deal" they claim they're not supposed to be. > > When I die and go to hell Satan will put me in a roomful of those numpties > and, i imagine like that scene in /Clockwork Orange/, force me to watch and > listen to those interminal death-by-PowerPoint presentations on ETOPS > including the exact layout and luminescence of the runway lighting at the > nearest ten airfields, eight of which you'd never divert to at night anyway. > > Simon > > -------- Original message -------- > From: "Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet" <[email protected]> > Date: 26/09/2025 09:09 (GMT+00:00) > To: Mifnet <[email protected]> > Cc: "Karl L. Swartz" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 74333] Re: AA empty flights > > ROFL! Tom, you know I can spot the WTFs even if I can’t solve the puzzle. > > In this case I’m left with few explanations other than that AA is daft. > Perhaps Eric can enlighten us, if there’s a sane explanation. > >  -- Karl > >> On Sep 25, 2025, at 11:29 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> You seem to know why everybody is wrong - why don't you have an answer? >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> *From: *Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> >> *To: *Mifnet <[email protected]> >> *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]> >> *Date: *2025-09-26T06:18:19Z >> *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74331] Re: AA empty flights >> >>> Why? 120-minute ETOPS is sufficient for the North Atlantic, though >>> 138-minute ETOPS closes a hole. There’s no need for 240-minute ETOPS over >>> the Atlantic, and in conversations with Airbus I’ve been told they see no >>> need for no more than 180 for the A321XLR. >>> >>>  -- Karl >>> >>>> On Sep 25, 2025, at 11:06 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Could this be an attempt to get from 180 to 240 ETOPs? >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *From: *Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]> >>>> *To: *Mifnet <[email protected]> >>>> *CC: *Karl L. Swartz <[email protected]> >>>> *Date: *2025-09-26T05:58:10Z >>>> *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 74329] Re: AA empty flights >>>> >>>>> AA didn’t use an A321XLR for the "qualification” flights so that’s not it. >>>>> >>>>> As I noted, AA already has ETOPS-180 for the A321 for Hawaii, though only >>>>> a subset of their fleet is ETOPS qualified. (In contrast, so far as I >>>>> know, all of United’s current 737 fleet is ETOPS qualified.) >>>>> >>>>> True, northern and western European destinations do not */require/* ETOPS >>>>> from the northeastern US, but it’s painful to do non-ETOPS. >>>>> >>>>>  -- Karl >>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Revised: 20250507 >>>> >>>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>>> >>>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>>> exactly cost-free. 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See instructions at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>>> >>>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>>> >>>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>>  [email protected]?subject=help >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>>>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >>>> >>>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>>>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>>>  https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, >> please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >> >> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >> >> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not >> a right. >> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >> author. >> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >> Mifnet members. >> >> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>  https://www.mifnet.com/ >> >> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >> [email protected]?subject=leave >> >> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>  [email protected] >> >> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>  [email protected] >> >> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >> list traffic into 1-3 >>  messages daily. See instructions at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>  [email protected]?subject=help >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >
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