Mike, Thank you for the far more informed and detailed response than mine. Excellent stuff.
-- Karl > On Oct 29, 2025, at 5:05 PM, Mike Borfitz via Mifnet > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Skeptic here. I'm not gonna dig too deep here, but I'm finding holes > everywhere, and some of what follows is opinion, common sense & a failing > memory. > I ALWAYS take a non-government report with a huge grain of salt. It's not > true until I can determine for myself that it IS true. Scrub the damn thing, > "Guilty until proven innocent." > I was suspicious from Day 1 when I got the impression that all the reports > from India seemed to point away from even considering human involvement. That > leaves LOTS of room for "best guessing". > A technical detail: normally a short circuit doesn't fix itself, especially > within seconds and without leaving some sort of evidence. And (AND) a short > circuit in such a critical area like ALL thrust loss would have an effect in > some other system, and it's reasonable that some evidence, a glitch of some > sort, would be found in the recorded data. I'm wondering if the folks who > put this together started with an assumption that there was a short circuit. > I don't know if it has been established as a fact, all we have is an > Airworthiness Directive that requires a fix. > Speaking of, AD 2016-14-04 is mentioned, then tells us of another 2024 NPRM > followed by an AD in 2025 AD but they don't publish the number. That doesn't > mean the AD doesn't exist, it's just a lack of thoroughness. And I'm feeling > too lazy to hunt it down. > They write " We believe we have identified the cause of the crash..." but > it's really not clear who "we" might be. Do they have full access to all the > data? > A few lines down from the headline they wrote "We have formed a community of > pilots, aircraft engineers and aviation experts and this has been a team > effort." OK fine but it's still vague. > From some quick research it looks like the switches had moved but it's not > clear to me how that happened or how it was recorded. My best guess is that > the physical switch position is recorded as opposed to some sort of hidden > electronic switching for BOTH engines. From the cockpit position I can > imagine the pilots want a switch when things happen fast and it makes sense > that the DFDR would record it. And I could be wrong so... > How do they know THIS? I'm having trouble believing the CCR can shut down > both engines. AND it also makes sense that the engines have FADEC, not EEC, I > hit that in another bullet. > <image.png> > Very sorry, but THIS (screenshot below) makes no sense:. When all engine > systems are functioning properly, I can't think of any reason why spooling > down to idle can be a protective measure. HOWEVER I was on a Boeing 757 > flight test about 40 years ago when we had an overspeed on a PW2037 that > caused the FADEC to command idle, but that was an overspeed & that can be > very, very bad if not corrected. AND we were still in the installation > development stage, I don't remember the cause but it got fixed. > <image.png> > THIS is absolute BS: "Each Engine Electronic Control (EEC) has its own > internal power conditioning system called a FADEC." In the engineering world, > EECs and FULL AUTHORITY digital engine controls (FADEC) are entirely > different systems. It's been a while but I can't think of any engine having > both. It was necessary in the engine world to keep their nomenclature > separate. And, > EEC is not Engine Electronic Control, it's Electronic Engine Control. "Back > in the day" before FADEC, an EEC was what we called "supervisory". You might > call it an efficiency control to save fuel. EEC failure caused reversion to > the old style, very reliable hydromechanical control, no biggie, just burn a > bit more fuel. FADEC was the next reasonable evolutionary step. Maybe think > of EEC as a trim system. > Little bit of credit, they tossed out some nice-sounding words & acronyms but > after digging in I say it's word salad. > Bottom line, whether "we" (the "root cause" writers) are competent or not, it > really bugs me when a so-called authoritative report can be torn apart so > easily. Get it 100% correct, even when describing acronyms. Credibility in > these situations must be unassailable. > > Re-reading my little diatribe I guess I got spooled up a bit (like those > engines didn't have enough time to accomplish). I've been guilty of this > myself, learned a hard lesson or three, but it REALLY irks me to see reports > like this, even though they may be well meant. The investigation continues, > there's a long history of doing it properly, so let the process do the work. > > Harumph. > > Borfitz > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 6:30 PM Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > One snippet: > > Each Engine Electronic Control (EEC) has its own internal power conditioning > system called a FADEC ... > > Huh, I always thought FADEC stood for Full Authority Digital Engine > Controller—an EEC plus supporting accessories. It’s not just the support goo > for the EEC. > > Errors like that always make me wonder about the veracity of the remainder of > an article, which is not to say that the hypothesis is wrong. > > -- Karl > >> On Oct 29, 2025, at 12:38 PM, Kathryn Creedy via Mifnet >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I just read this saying it was a short circuit caused by water infiltration. >> >> Any comment? >> >> https://42kft.com/root-cause-of-the-air-india-ai171-crash/ >> <https://42kft.com/root-cause-of-the-air-india-ai171-crash/> >> >> Kathryn >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Kathryn Creedy >> PHONE # 321 405 4395 >> US-Eastern Time Zone >> Visit me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kbcreedy/> >> <image007.gif> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. 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See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ <https://lists.mifnet.com/> > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ <https://lists.mifnet.com/> > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=help > <http://[email protected]/?subject=help> > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > <https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies> > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > <https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems> > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > <https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/> > > > -- > Mike Borfitz > Cell 206-714-8797 > Kilroy Aviation LLC > WWW.FAAODA.COM <http://www.faaoda.com/> > > Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues > - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety > - International validation & safety matters > - Program & system management > - FAA STC ODA > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. 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