On 05/12/10 23:54, Fred Elwood wrote:
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Theo de Raadt<dera...@cvs.openbsd.org> wrote:
From:
Theo de Raadt<dera...@cvs.openbsd.org>
Subject: Re: Donations
To: "Fred
Elwood"<fred.elw...@yahoo.com>
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Date: Monday,
December 6, 2010, 1:42 AM
PayPal's terms of use do not
permit soliciting
crime.
Paypal's terms of use are just that; terms of use.
The account
was
being run by the German charity WHS.
Noone has said that wikileaks
has commited a crime.
What statute
are you talking about?
Wikileaks
solicits the
holders of US security clearances to violate
their
non-disclosure agreements.
That is a crime.
I hereby ask
anyone who holds secrets that the world should
know
of, which may contain
indications of real crimes having
been commited
should send them to
wikileaks.
Did I just commit a crime?
No.
Oh, remember I do not
live
in the US.
Hypothetical cleared US personnel who took you up on this
request WOULD be committing a crime.
Some people think it should not
be a crime. But it
is. Some people
think that it matters that WIkileaks
says that they do
not ask for
submissions. That matters about as much
as a mob
boss saying that he
didn't ask anyone to shoot so-and-so, just
that
wouldn't it be
fortunate if someone
did? Wikileaks model is
predicated on breaking
NDAs, and based on what their
cite on their
front pages, breaking NDAs
on US classified information is their
biggest product center.
You think it should be a crime. You just
justified
skipping due process.
Against whom? Due process rights exist
in criminal and civil proceedings, not in business arrangements. Wikileaks
has no more due process rights against PayPal than Wim has against you; they
might be able to sue for breach of contract, but that's it. "Due process" has
nothing to do with this case. The nickel summary is that "due process" is not
in play if the cops are not directly involved.
The crime I am talking about
is the crime of the cleared individuals disclosing the classified information.
PayPal did not terminate Wikileaks for committing a crime, but for using
PayPal in support of their soliciting crimes (unlawful disclosure/conveyance
of classified information), which is against their terms of service.
Wikileaks is not guilty of any crimes until it's there's been a due
process. It's just "accused of" for now.
