Funny how those expensive lessons stay with you the longest;)

Jesse

From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Holland Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 3:25 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?


The fuel pumps can easily be damaged just by running the car out of fuel. One 
time, I was driving home from work, and noticed the fuel gauge was reading very 
close to empty. I decided I would easily make it home, and planned on getting 
gas on the way to work the next day. But when I started the car the next 
morning, the gauge now read a little higher, so I assumed I would easily make 
it to work, and would get fuel at lunch. I Made it almost to work when the car 
died. The Fuel gauge was still reading above the last line, so I didn't believe 
I was actually out of gas. So I attempted to restart the car for a few minutes. 
Big mistake. I called AAA and they brought a couple of gallons of gas. Car 
wouldn't start. I had it towed to the shop where I had work done on the car 
when I didn't have time to do it myself (New Dimensions - remember them?). 
Turned out I had fried both pumps because they overheated since they are 
intended to be cooled by the fuel. About $500 later, I had learned a very 
expensive lesson.

~Holland
On Mar 1, 2016 11:58, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com<mailto:la...@sinu.com>> 
wrote:
Good point on the fueling system.   Bad gas (Ethanol is the devil!), clogged 
fuel filter, clogged fuel lines, failing fuel pump(s) or failing injectors 
could definitely contribute to running issues – I would imagine.

-Larry

From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of 
Holland Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 1:42 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?


I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be 
contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is 
probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives 
that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life.
An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or transfer 
pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The easiest way to 
check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel distributor and 
have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should get a really healthy 
stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at around 50psi, give or 
take.
We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that looks 
correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with.

~Holland
On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com<mailto:la...@sinu.com>> 
wrote:
I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding injectors 
of all ages:

https://www.injector.com/

https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/

-Larry

From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of 
Holland Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:56 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com<mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?


I agree with you Chad. At this point, I would perform a compression test. If 
that looks good, then I'm at a loss as to where to go next. Maybe look at the 
injectors. It's probably easier and cheaper to try and find some used, 
hopefully known good injectors, even if it's only one. Then you could swap them 
one at a time and see if you find a bad one. There are a couple of companies 
that do balancing and blueprinting of Motronic injectors. I had mine done by 
Marren Motorsports back in the mid '90's, so I don't know if they're still in 
business. They could perform just testing to check for flow and pattern.
Beyond that, I just don't know.

~Holland
On Feb 29, 2016 18:21, "Chad Rebuck" 
<chadreb...@gmail.com<mailto:chadreb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt is 
tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is 
tightened.  Same for the crank pulley too.  The key can break if the bolt gets 
loose enough for it to turn.

I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a short 
while when you opened up the throttle.

I'm about out of ideas.  If you take it to a shop the first thing they're going 
to do is check the timing again and check the compression I bet.
On Feb 29, 2016 9:05 PM, "damac2004" 
<damac2...@sbcglobal.net<mailto:damac2...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video from the 
engine bay or tailpipe?

i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just popped the 
distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out.

the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it didn't 
move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising?  i bought another 
cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same way and told 
me every one he has taken off came the same way?  i thought that was nuts but 
have seen through forums searching it has happened to others.  i got a new cam 
pulley while doing all this work and its still fine.  and i have to assume the 
crank is fine as well since it was good running and all the marks are lining up 
correctly still.

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote:

Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the cam. If 
the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing the timing to 
be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a broken locating tooth?
On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck" 
<chadr...@gmail.com<mailto:chadr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify the 
spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004" 
<dama...@sbcglobal.net<mailto:dama...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back in with 
no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and ran some 
extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.

my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my problems 
seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars running right.  
this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn injector seals and 
numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best when hot and on the 
throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had goofy issues with 
starting consistently and idling a little high/rough/inconsistent at times.

and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running car 
possibly but again this is way worse than that.

i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and cross my 
fingers.

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:

Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which was 
mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed or was 
functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor has no 
output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", which is full 
rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the O2 sensor on the 
Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a heater, so its output 
will become valid more quickly in order to reduce emissions. All this is 
bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I acquired over the years. 😐

~Holland
On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" 
<dama...@sbcglobal.net<mailto:dama...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all apart, 
after this incident.

this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole time 
:).

i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to drive. i 
was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time

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