As Steve mentioned, the O2 sensor signal wire is shielded, similar to a coaxial cable. It's basically a regular insulated braided copper wire of about 20 gauge, with a braided shield covering it.
~Holland On Mar 19, 2016 12:13, "damac2004" <damac2...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > im pretty sure i have 2 knock sensors? im attaching a picture of what i > uncovered from electrical tape. looks like a brown wire covered with black > that goes to top connector from drivers side, its duct taped along i guess > stock loom. i assumed ground at first but wonder if this could be the 02 > sensor signal wire? > > and just what i thought. i have a black ground wire coming from firewall > gong to the loom. but an area is all cut away with exposed wiring. the > wire from outside of loom was wrapped into this exposed ground bundle WITH > the 02 sensor signal wire??? > > this is incorrect right? ground wire is no the same as signal wire for 02 > sensor it should make an isolated run somewhere? > > whats wierd is all the wires but the loose one outside of loom seem to be > fused together. i can't detect solder and the wires seem to be attached > firmly inside the black cover. i can't even pull them apart, i would have > to cut which makes me think it was stock because i don't see breaks further > down the line. > > > <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dxq5cmIRnac/Vu2jZVj8m9I/AAAAAAAAAN0/6KQ2liGE3owz3akNdZZU2l2Z-LO6_usig/s1600/IMG_0571.JPG> > > > On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 10:29:29 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote: >> >> On a typical 1.8 CIS-E the O2 signal wire is shielded and green to an >> insulated male spade connector and there are 2 white heater wires into a >> duplex VW connector. I’m not sure how big of a deal the knock sensor issue >> that you’re going to have is. Your Motronic ECU is going to want 2 knock >> sensor signals, I think it uses one as a baseline reference and the other >> adjusts the spark timing. The 1.8 block only accepts one knock sensor. >> >> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:31 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v < >> mk2...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> This reminds me of a friend who adamantly stuck to the theory that VW and >> Audi engines are the same because of the engine code. Instead of moving the >> accessories, he installed the complete 1.8t from a VW into an Audi TT. >> >> At start-up, it fired immediately but idled at 2000 rpms. Why? Because >> VW had a 1" fitting underneath the manifold that Audi doesn't use. The >> moral is to never assume and always check the obvious since the obvious >> isn't always obvious <G> >> >> - Matthew - >> >> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:03, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Progress! That's awesome! I don't remember the wire colors anymore, but >> yes, one of the wires to the O2 sensor is the heater wire. Hopefully, once >> you set the timing, it will improve things. However, until you get the O2 >> sensor hooked up correctly, it isn't going to run right. But at least >> you've resolved a lot of your issues. I'm happy for you. >> >> ~Holland >> On Mar 19, 2016 01:38, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> well i capped off one hole with a bolt/washer and the other with a thick >> plate and gasket. turned the key once to hear the pump prime and then >> tried to start the car and it started right up and idled a bit less than >> 900 rpm i think. >> >> wow do i feel stupid. >> >> i got various little things to fix after poking around but my next >> problem is the cat/02 sensor. i'm going to start fresh with my new cat and >> 02 sensor at this point. i assumed the wiring was ok but noticed some >> previous owner electrical tape and there are numerous wires tied together >> into a bundle thats hooking up to a ground on the passenger firewall. this >> includes a single wire that is zip tied to the outside of the loom coming >> from the drivers side. halfway it turns from black to brown with vw >> plastic connectors. >> >> seems a little goofy at face value to have a single wire shoot all the >> way over there for ground right where all those wires meet. i have to look >> closer but i think something is screwed up if im reading right the 2nd 02 >> sensor connector is a heater wire NOT ground? the other harness with 2 >> white wires goes into the loom. >> >> i have a feeling car isn't even getting a signal from 02 sensor so i need >> to get that straight before installing new one. >> >> i had the distributor at the old setups marks, i will have to time it >> tomorrow i couldn't actually see the marks well when trying the timing >> light in the dark tonight. car runs and is revving out with the stock >> chip/cams, etc. but i noticed right away when i stab the throttle and it >> comes off the idle switch there was a slight gurgle and then it revs out >> but is reacting to pedal. i'm hoping it needs to be timed and that will >> help. >> >> On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:56:36 PM UTC-7, damac2004 wrote: >> >> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here. >> >> is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake >> manifold made the car act this way? >> >> this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff. when i pulled the euro >> manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was >> held by bolts and gasket. >> >> when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember >> poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was >> solid wall on each. at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe >> would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware. >> >> i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't >> think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on >> the car like that. >> >> tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope >> effort i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb >> went off. so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other >> hole up. if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. >> when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the >> top. when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out. >> >> i don't know these cars at all. since the car wasn't running right i >> never wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car. my >> mom was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of >> course i told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running >> right. couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer. >> >> i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and >> they don't run without the intake tubes attached? i'm hoping this is what >> it was. going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 >> holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic >> its back to normal and then i can smog it. >> >> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote: >> >> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be >> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is >> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives >> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. >> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or >> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The >> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel >> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should >> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at >> around 50psi, give or take. >> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that looks >> correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. >> >> ~Holland >> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com> wrote: >> >> I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding >> injectors of all ages: >> >> >> >> https://www.injector.com/ >> >> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/ >> >> >> >> -Larry >> >> >> >> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2...@googlegroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Holland Phillips >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:56 PM >> *To:* mk2...@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have? >> >> >> >> I agree with you Chad. At this point, I would perform a compression test. >> If that looks good, then I'm at a loss as to where to go next. Maybe look >> at the injectors. It's probably easier and cheaper to try and find some >> used, hopefully known good injectors, even if it's only one. Then you could >> swap them one at a time and see if you find a bad one. There are a couple >> of companies that do balancing and blueprinting of Motronic injectors. I >> had mine done by Marren Motorsports back in the mid '90's, so I don't know >> if they're still in business. They could perform just testing to check for >> flow and pattern. >> Beyond that, I just don't know. >> >> ~Holland >> >> On Feb 29, 2016 18:21, "Chad Rebuck" <chadr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt is >> tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is >> tightened. Same for the crank pulley too. The key can break if the bolt >> gets loose enough for it to turn. >> >> I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a >> short while when you opened up the throttle. >> >> I'm about out of ideas. If you take it to a shop the first thing they're >> going to do is check the timing again and check the compression I bet. >> >> On Feb 29, 2016 9:05 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video from >> the engine bay or tailpipe? >> >> >> >> i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just >> popped the distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out. >> >> >> >> the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it >> didn't move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising? i bought >> another cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same >> way and told me every one he has taken off came the same way? i thought >> that was nuts but have seen through forums searching it has happened to >> others. i got a new cam pulley while doing all this work and its still >> fine. and i have to assume the crank is fine as well since it was good >> running and all the marks are lining up correctly still. >> >> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote: >> >> Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the >> cam. If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing >> the timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a >> broken locating tooth? >> >> On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck" <chadr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify >> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running? >> >> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back >> in with no changes in how the car is acting. i also checked grounds and >> ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case. >> >> >> >> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven. so my >> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars >> running right. this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn >> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best >> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had >> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little >> high/rough/inconsistent at times. >> >> >> >> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running >> car possibly but again this is way worse than that. >> >> >> >> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and >> cross my fingers. >> >> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote: >> >> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which >> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed >> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor >> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", >> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the >> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a >> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce >> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I >> acquired over the years. 😐 >> >> ~Holland >> >> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all >> apart, after this incident. >> >> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole >> time :). >> >> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to >> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MK2-16v" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to mk2...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> 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