And just as an FYI, on a 2.0 block, both knock sensors are mounted on the side of the block which faces the front of the car. And as I recall, the leads for both sensors come from the firewall in a small vinyl covered harness that runs by the rear of the head over the top of the bell housing (more or less).
~Holland On Mar 19, 2016 13:24, "Steven Arguello" <stevenargue...@gmail.com> wrote: > The wire you’re touching looks like the O2 signal. In your case it looks > like the shield might have been pulled off and ran to ground. (That’s a > guess, could be like that from the factory) The red and yellowish (sorry, > I’m a little color blind) are the O2 heater. The 2 whites and the lead with > the electrical tape go to the sensor. > I think. > > There’s only one mounting point for a knock sensor on the 1.8, the 2.0 has > 2. If you have 2 and they’re both mounted to the block then I’d say that > the block is 2.0. I know we’ve gone back and forth on this, but I had the > exact opposite happen to me my ’88 had a 2.0 (the PO didn’t know) I found > out when I discovered the second KS. > > On Mar 19, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Holland Phillips <hollandphill...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > As Steve mentioned, the O2 sensor signal wire is shielded, similar to a > coaxial cable. It's basically a regular insulated braided copper wire of > about 20 gauge, with a braided shield covering it. > > ~Holland > On Mar 19, 2016 12:13, "damac2004" <damac2...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> im pretty sure i have 2 knock sensors? im attaching a picture of what i >> uncovered from electrical tape. looks like a brown wire covered with black >> that goes to top connector from drivers side, its duct taped along i guess >> stock loom. i assumed ground at first but wonder if this could be the 02 >> sensor signal wire? >> >> and just what i thought. i have a black ground wire coming from firewall >> gong to the loom. but an area is all cut away with exposed wiring. the >> wire from outside of loom was wrapped into this exposed ground bundle WITH >> the 02 sensor signal wire??? >> >> this is incorrect right? ground wire is no the same as signal wire for >> 02 sensor it should make an isolated run somewhere? >> >> whats wierd is all the wires but the loose one outside of loom seem to be >> fused together. i can't detect solder and the wires seem to be attached >> firmly inside the black cover. i can't even pull them apart, i would have >> to cut which makes me think it was stock because i don't see breaks further >> down the line. >> >> >> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dxq5cmIRnac/Vu2jZVj8m9I/AAAAAAAAAN0/6KQ2liGE3owz3akNdZZU2l2Z-LO6_usig/s1600/IMG_0571.JPG> >> >> >> On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 10:29:29 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote: >>> >>> On a typical 1.8 CIS-E the O2 signal wire is shielded and green to an >>> insulated male spade connector and there are 2 white heater wires into a >>> duplex VW connector. I’m not sure how big of a deal the knock sensor issue >>> that you’re going to have is. Your Motronic ECU is going to want 2 knock >>> sensor signals, I think it uses one as a baseline reference and the other >>> adjusts the spark timing. The 1.8 block only accepts one knock sensor. >>> >>> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:31 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v < >>> mk2...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>> This reminds me of a friend who adamantly stuck to the theory that VW >>> and Audi engines are the same because of the engine code. Instead of moving >>> the accessories, he installed the complete 1.8t from a VW into an Audi TT. >>> >>> At start-up, it fired immediately but idled at 2000 rpms. Why? Because >>> VW had a 1" fitting underneath the manifold that Audi doesn't use. The >>> moral is to never assume and always check the obvious since the obvious >>> isn't always obvious <G> >>> >>> - Matthew - >>> >>> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:03, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Progress! That's awesome! I don't remember the wire colors anymore, but >>> yes, one of the wires to the O2 sensor is the heater wire. Hopefully, once >>> you set the timing, it will improve things. However, until you get the O2 >>> sensor hooked up correctly, it isn't going to run right. But at least >>> you've resolved a lot of your issues. I'm happy for you. >>> >>> ~Holland >>> On Mar 19, 2016 01:38, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>> well i capped off one hole with a bolt/washer and the other with a thick >>> plate and gasket. turned the key once to hear the pump prime and then >>> tried to start the car and it started right up and idled a bit less than >>> 900 rpm i think. >>> >>> wow do i feel stupid. >>> >>> i got various little things to fix after poking around but my next >>> problem is the cat/02 sensor. i'm going to start fresh with my new cat and >>> 02 sensor at this point. i assumed the wiring was ok but noticed some >>> previous owner electrical tape and there are numerous wires tied together >>> into a bundle thats hooking up to a ground on the passenger firewall. this >>> includes a single wire that is zip tied to the outside of the loom coming >>> from the drivers side. halfway it turns from black to brown with vw >>> plastic connectors. >>> >>> seems a little goofy at face value to have a single wire shoot all the >>> way over there for ground right where all those wires meet. i have to look >>> closer but i think something is screwed up if im reading right the 2nd 02 >>> sensor connector is a heater wire NOT ground? the other harness with 2 >>> white wires goes into the loom. >>> >>> i have a feeling car isn't even getting a signal from 02 sensor so i >>> need to get that straight before installing new one. >>> >>> i had the distributor at the old setups marks, i will have to time it >>> tomorrow i couldn't actually see the marks well when trying the timing >>> light in the dark tonight. car runs and is revving out with the stock >>> chip/cams, etc. but i noticed right away when i stab the throttle and it >>> comes off the idle switch there was a slight gurgle and then it revs out >>> but is reacting to pedal. i'm hoping it needs to be timed and that will >>> help. >>> >>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:56:36 PM UTC-7, damac2004 wrote: >>> >>> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here. >>> >>> is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake >>> manifold made the car act this way? >>> >>> this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff. when i pulled the euro >>> manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was >>> held by bolts and gasket. >>> >>> when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember >>> poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was >>> solid wall on each. at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe >>> would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware. >>> >>> i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't >>> think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on >>> the car like that. >>> >>> tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope >>> effort i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb >>> went off. so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other >>> hole up. if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. >>> when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the >>> top. when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out. >>> >>> i don't know these cars at all. since the car wasn't running right i >>> never wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car. my >>> mom was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of >>> course i told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running >>> right. couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer. >>> >>> i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and >>> they don't run without the intake tubes attached? i'm hoping this is what >>> it was. going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 >>> holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic >>> its back to normal and then i can smog it. >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote: >>> >>> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be >>> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is >>> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives >>> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. >>> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or >>> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The >>> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel >>> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should >>> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at >>> around 50psi, give or take. >>> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that >>> looks correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. >>> >>> ~Holland >>> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com> wrote: >>> >>> I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding >>> injectors of all ages: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.injector.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -Larry >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2...@googlegroups.com] *On >>> Behalf Of *Holland Phillips >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:56 PM >>> *To:* mk2...@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have? >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with you Chad. At this point, I would perform a compression >>> test. If that looks good, then I'm at a loss as to where to go next. Maybe >>> look at the injectors. It's probably easier and cheaper to try and find >>> some used, hopefully known good injectors, even if it's only one. Then you >>> could swap them one at a time and see if you find a bad one. There are a >>> couple of companies that do balancing and blueprinting of Motronic >>> injectors. I had mine done by Marren Motorsports back in the mid '90's, so >>> I don't know if they're still in business. They could perform just testing >>> to check for flow and pattern. >>> Beyond that, I just don't know. >>> >>> ~Holland >>> >>> On Feb 29, 2016 18:21, "Chad Rebuck" <chadr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt >>> is tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is >>> tightened. Same for the crank pulley too. The key can break if the bolt >>> gets loose enough for it to turn. >>> >>> I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a >>> short while when you opened up the throttle. >>> >>> I'm about out of ideas. If you take it to a shop the first thing >>> they're going to do is check the timing again and check the compression I >>> bet. >>> >>> On Feb 29, 2016 9:05 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>> im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video >>> from the engine bay or tailpipe? >>> >>> >>> >>> i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just >>> popped the distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out. >>> >>> >>> >>> the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it >>> didn't move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising? i bought >>> another cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same >>> way and told me every one he has taken off came the same way? i thought >>> that was nuts but have seen through forums searching it has happened to >>> others. i got a new cam pulley while doing all this work and its still >>> fine. and i have to assume the crank is fine as well since it was good >>> running and all the marks are lining up correctly still. >>> >>> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote: >>> >>> Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the >>> cam. If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing >>> the timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a >>> broken locating tooth? >>> >>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck" <chadr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify >>> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running? >>> >>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back >>> in with no changes in how the car is acting. i also checked grounds and >>> ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case. >>> >>> >>> >>> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven. so my >>> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars >>> running right. this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn >>> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best >>> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had >>> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little >>> high/rough/inconsistent at times. >>> >>> >>> >>> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running >>> car possibly but again this is way worse than that. >>> >>> >>> >>> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and >>> cross my fingers. >>> >>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips >>> wrote: >>> >>> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which >>> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed >>> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor >>> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", >>> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the >>> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a >>> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce >>> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I >>> acquired over the years. 😐 >>> >>> ~Holland >>> >>> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all >>> apart, after this incident. >>> >>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole >>> time :). >>> >>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to >>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MK2-16v" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to mk2...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> 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