> From: Jesse Erlbaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: 06 June 2002 19:34
> To: 'Bill Moseley'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> First off, it is less of an "MVC crime" to combine your Model and 
> Controller than it is to combine your Controller and View.  

I disagree - coupling Controller and Model contradicts the fundamental 
tenet of MVC which is separation of Model from the Controller and View
UIs.
As I understand it, the main benefit of MCV is that the Model knows the 
minimal possible about the Controller and View UIs.

Most pundits indicate that the only relationship between a Model and
View
is that of the weakly typed observer pattern.

I should point out that the mod_perlish MVC as described so far in these
threads is only loosely based on the MVC pattern, which was originally
designed for more traditional stateful user interfaces than web
browsing.

Here are some MVC pages that indicate Models should NOT be closely
linked
to Controller, and that in fact the relationship between the two user
interface components [ie Controller and View] may be stronger.
  http://ootips.org/mvc-pattern.html

And the MVC relationships are covered, esp on page 5 of this
  http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~cbaray/projects/mvc.html

and there are some good pictures on this link
  http://www.object-arts.com/EducationCentre/Overviews/MVC.htm 

which also says:
'What we really want, though, is a tight coupling between AM and View
but a 
loose coupling between Domain Model and View'

I parse this as 'tight coupling between Controller and View but a loose 
coupling between Model and View'

£0.02

Regards
Jeff


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