I was afraid of that. I'll look into that further. Thanks again for your help.
On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton wrote: > Enabling capture of core dump files and then using gdb to work out where C > level stack trace is for when process is crashing is all I can think of. > > On 31 Oct 2022, at 7:38 am, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the vhost suggestion. I hadn't thought of that but it turned > out we didn't need to. > > After more testing it turns out that a .wsgi script with simple hello > world script per > > > https://modwsgi.readthedocs.io/en/develop/user-guides/quick-configuration-guide.html#wsgi-application-script-file > > is exhibiting the problem: with no incoming requests at all the mod_wsgi > process after sitting there for anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours, > dies with a segmentation fault. Any idea what else I could look at? > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 12:10:38 AM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton wrote: > >> The LogLevel can be set just in a VirtualHost context if is under >> separate host. If you are then using separate log files for differential >> VirtualHost it should at least be semi segmented from everything else. >> >> On 26 Oct 2022, at 4:34 pm, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I was grepping all the log files for any messages within a minute or two >> before the segfaults so if a request was logged anywhere I should have seen >> it. >> >> I'll mention the LogLevel Debug setting to them, but there were >> complaints before that LogLevel Info was too noisy so I'm not sure that >> will fly. >> >> I'll look into the possibility of errant app threads and post back if >> anything turns up. Thanks very much for your help with this. >> On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 11:05:28 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton wrote: >> >>> The only way I can think of that you may get a request which wasn't >>> logged, is if an internal Apache request was triggered via an internal >>> redirect from another Apache module. There still has to be an original >>> request, but it would be logged as different request URL to where it got >>> internally redirected. >>> >>> Since you are using mod_wsgi daemon mode you can likely see better >>> evidence of all requests being handled if turn on verbose debugging mode, >>> but would be quite noisy. >>> >>> LogLevel debug >>> WSGIVerboseDebugging On >>> >>> Graham >>> >>> On 26 Oct 2022, at 3:33 pm, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I didn't compile mod_wsgi myself so I can't say 100% but the person who >>> did said so and there is a source directory on the machine named >>> mod_wsgi-4.9.4 with a mod_wsgi.so file whose sha1 checksum matches that of >>> the file in the apache modules/ directory, so I'd say I'm 99.9% sure. >>> >>> But the chances of >1Gi requests being made seem pretty small. The urls >>> haven't been publicized, there are only a handful of known users accessing >>> the urls infrequently as testers and nothing in the application would >>> generate requests of that magnitude. >>> >>> This may be out of scope for you, but are you aware of any (reasonably >>> normal) circumstances under which a mod_wsgi process could receive a >>> request that wasn't logged by Apache? Or perhaps I could modify the >>> mod_wsgi source code to print a message to a file when a request was >>> received (which I could then correlate with the Apache logs to answer the >>> question.) Because usage is very light and this is only for short term >>> debugging, I don't think locking or anything fancy would be needed? >>> >>> And I am still wondering about library mismatches or conflicts since >>> Apache, Python, mod_wsgi and C-based Python modules (eg psyocopg2) used by >>> the app were all built from source. It is possible that some version >>> mismatch there causes some memory corruption that is later manifest when >>> one of the mod_wsgi housekeeping threads runs? I would like if possible to >>> rule this out or at least put at the bottom of the list. >>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 8:35:07 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton wrote: >>> >>>> I know you said you were using mod_wsgi/4.9.4, but are you absolutely >>>> sure? Apache/2.4.54 made a breaking change by changing the default for >>>> LimitRequestBody directive, which would cause mod_wsgi daemon process to >>>> crash when there were sent large request bodies over 1Gi. This was fixed >>>> in >>>> version 4.9.4, but am wondering whether your production system has older >>>> version than your development systems use and you just aren't aware of >>>> that. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://modwsgi.readthedocs.io/en/master/release-notes/version-4.9.4.html#bugs-fixed >>>> >>>> As to back ground threads, mod_wsgi has a couple of background threads >>>> which check for idle activity, deadlocks and things, but they touch so >>>> little they have never caused issues in the past. Beyond that, the request >>>> handler threads themselves should be stuck on a select loop if no requests >>>> are happening. >>>> >>>> On 26 Oct 2022, at 1:12 pm, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Again, thanks for those suggestions. >>>> >>>> The OOM killer seems not to be an issue. I've been told there are no >>>> signs of it in the system logs and no signs of memory problems via >>>> monitoring during nomal operations. >>>> >>>> Nor did "WSGIDestroyInterpreter Off" have any effect, the segfaults are >>>> still occurring after that was added and Apache restarted. >>>> >>>> My understanding of how mod_wsgi works is pretty sketchy. IIUC you are >>>> saying that the mod_wsgi processes are sitting there, waiting on a >>>> select() >>>> call or the like, to receive a request from the mod_wsgi code within >>>> Apache; and in that state they cannot simply spontaneously crash -- it >>>> must >>>> be that either that the process received request from Apache (via the >>>> mod_wsgi module) or there is some independent thread running in the Python >>>> part of the mod_wsgi process (which is running my wsgi app) that is >>>> causing >>>> the crash? >>>> >>>> I based my claim that there were no requests coincidental with the >>>> segfaults based on the lack of log messages within a second or two for >>>> some >>>> of the segfaults. (Its a moderately busy server so of course there were >>>> also some close in time but for seemingly unrelated pages: eg, python, php >>>> or c cgi, or html.) Is it possible that the mod_wsgi processes are >>>> getting >>>> woken up by something that does not produce an apache access log entry? >>>> >>>> I'm still working on the python thread hypothesis (this is a production >>>> server so changes aren't easy.) >>>> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 2:12:02 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton wrote: >>>> >>>>> How much memory do the processes use? Maybe the system OOM process >>>>> killer is killing the processes as they consume lots of memory and the >>>>> system thinks it is running low. There were some potential problems >>>>> introduced with Python 3.9 with how process are shutdown and that causes >>>>> embedded systems to fail on shutdown. >>>>> >>>>> See: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://modwsgi.readthedocs.io/en/master/release-notes/version-4.9.1.html#features-changed >>>>> >>>>> You can try setting: >>>>> >>>>> WSGIDestroyInterpreter Off >>>>> >>>>> as mentioned in those change notes and see if it goes away. >>>>> >>>>> Other than that, if you are confident that no new requests are >>>>> arriving, can only suggest you work out if there are background threads >>>>> running in Python. >>>>> >>>>> You can do that be adding code as described in: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://modwsgi.readthedocs.io/en/master/user-guides/debugging-techniques.html#extracting-python-stack-traces >>>>> >>>>> and triggering a dump of running threads by touching a file in the >>>>> file system. >>>>> >>>>> It might also be helpful if you can work out how to have the system >>>>> preserve core dumps from Apache so they can be used to extract a true >>>>> process stack trace as that may give a clue. >>>>> >>>>> Graham >>>>> >>>>> On 24 Oct 2022, at 3:51 am, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for that suggestion. I passed it on to the site admin made and >>>>> he made the "application-group=%{GLOBAL}" change, but unfortunately it >>>>> made >>>>> no difference, the segfaults are still occurring as before. Is there >>>>> anything else I can look at? The current configuration is: >>>>> >>>>> WSGIDaemonProcess jmwsgi processes=2 threads=10 \ >>>>> display-name=apache2-jmwsgi locale=en_US.UTF-8 lang=en_US.UTF-8 >>>>> WSGIScriptAlias /jmwsgi >>>>> /usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb/wsgifiles/jmdictdb.wsgi \ >>>>> process-group=jmwsgi application-group=%{GLOBAL} >>>>> >>>>> Would changing to "process=N threads=1" or "processes=1 threads=N" >>>>> provide any useful info? Apache, mod_wsgi and the other web server >>>>> components were all built there (ie, they are not from distro-supplied >>>>> packages.) Are the symptoms consistent with a mismatched library or some >>>>> other build configuration issue? Or conversely, maybe they make that >>>>> unlikely? >>>>> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 11:48:51 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Try changing it to: >>>>>> >>>>>> WSGIScriptAlias /jmwsgi >>>>>> /usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb/wsgifiles/jmdictdb.wsgi \ >>>>>> process-group=jmwsgi application-group=%{GLOBAL} >>>>>> >>>>>> You are possibly using a third party Python module which isn't >>>>>> designed to work in Python sub interpreters. That application group >>>>>> value >>>>>> forces the main Python interpreter context to be used, which can avoid >>>>>> problems with crashes, or thread deadlocks when such broken modules are >>>>>> used. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://modwsgi.readthedocs.io/en/master/user-guides/application-issues.html#python-simplified-gil-state-api >>>>>> >>>>>> That option on WSGIScriptAlias has same affect as WSGIAplicationGroup >>>>>> but is more specific. For same reason, your use of WSGIProcessGroup is >>>>>> redundant as process group setting on WSGIScriptAlias takes precedence. >>>>>> >>>>>> Graham >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22 Oct 2022, at 2:35 pm, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> My apologies for the delayed response, I thought I had my google >>>>>> email forwarded to my main email account but... :-( >>>>>> >>>>>> My intent was that the processes run in daemon mode. I had missed >>>>>> the info about the WSGIRestrictEmbedded directive when I went through >>>>>> the >>>>>> doc, I'll ask the admin there to add that. The full configuration for >>>>>> wsgi >>>>>> is: >>>>>> >>>>>> WSGIDaemonProcess jmwsgi processes=2 threads=10 \ >>>>>> display-name=apache2-jmwsgi locale=en_US.UTF-8 lang=en_US.UTF-8 >>>>>> WSGIProcessGroup jmwsgi >>>>>> WSGIScriptAlias /jmwsgi >>>>>> /usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb/wsgifiles/jmdictdb.wsgi \ >>>>>> process-group=jmwsgi >>>>>> # Serve static files directly without using the app. >>>>>> Alias /jmwsgi/web/ /usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb/ >>>>>> <Directory /usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb> >>>>>> DirectoryIndex disabled >>>>>> Require all granted >>>>>> </Directory> >>>>>> >>>>>> The server has a number of virtual hosts and there were a few >>>>>> mod_wsgi "Loading Python" messages in the error log for one of them (for >>>>>> ssl) but nothing looking errorish and only a few, nowhere near the >>>>>> number >>>>>> of segfault messages: >>>>>> >>>>>> [Sat Oct 01 07:50:12.090697 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 731154:tid >>>>>> 140442461062912] [remote *.*.*.*:40566] mod_wsgi (pid=731154, >>>>>> process='jmwsgi', application='www.edrdg.org|/jmwsgi'): Loading >>>>>> Python script file '/usr/local/apache2/jmdictdb/wsgifiles/jmdictdb.wsgi'. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the wsgi configuration stuff is outside all the virtutal hosts. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the server starts, there are a couple messages in the main error >>>>>> log file like: >>>>>> >>>>>> [Sat Oct 01 06:42:26.499086 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 731041:tid >>>>>> 140442622753728] mod_wsgi (pid=731041): Starting process 'jmwsgi' with >>>>>> uid=33, gid=33 and threads=10. >>>>>> [Sat Oct 01 06:42:26.499518 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 731039:tid >>>>>> 140442622753728] mod_wsgi (pid=731039): Starting process 'jmwsgi' with >>>>>> uid=33, gid=33 and threads=10. >>>>>> >>>>>> and these are followed/interleaved with the "Initializing Python" and >>>>>> "Attach interpreter" messages but after server startup the messages are >>>>>> limited to the sets of three I showed: "Initializing Python" and "Attach >>>>>> interpreter" followed sometime later by the Segmentation fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does any of that help? >>>>>> On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 4:16:09 PM UTC-6 Graham Dumpleton >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What other mod_wsgi configuration is there besides >>>>>>> the WSGIDaemonProcess directive? That alone only creates a mod_wsgi >>>>>>> daemon >>>>>>> process group, but does not tell mod_wsgi to use it. Thus cannot tell >>>>>>> whether you are using embedded mode or daemon mode. The logs are also >>>>>>> odd >>>>>>> in that would expect to see other messages in there around when >>>>>>> processes >>>>>>> are created if using daemon mode, plus an indication of whether a >>>>>>> message >>>>>>> is being generated from an Apache child process or mod_wsgi daemon >>>>>>> process. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So can you supply the other parts of the mod_wsgi configuration so >>>>>>> can see if properly using daemon mode or not. Also look for logs from >>>>>>> mod_wsgi in any per virtual host specific error log file and not just >>>>>>> main >>>>>>> Apache error log if you separate them. Finally, if you are only >>>>>>> intending >>>>>>> to use mod_wsgi daemon mode, ensure you add the directive: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WSGIRestrictEmbedded On >>>>>>> >>>>>>> outside of all VirtualHost definitions so that any attempt to >>>>>>> intitialise/use Python in main Apache child processes is disabled. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Graham >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 17 Oct 2022, at 8:07 am, stuart mcgraw <smcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am author of a Flask application running under Linux/Apache >>>>>>> mod_wsgi that is experiencing intermittent, random segmentation faults. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is unusual is that the mod_wsgi process segfaults are occurring >>>>>>> not at startup when mod_wsgi is loaded, or at when an incoming request >>>>>>> accesses the app, but when the wsgi processes are just sitting there, >>>>>>> quiescent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From a user's point of view, everything looks fine, the mod_wsgi >>>>>>> processes and the app respond with the right results with no sign of >>>>>>> trouble at the client's browser. But looking at the Apache logs shows >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> wsgi processes periodically segfaulting and getting restarted with no >>>>>>> correlated incoming requests. They die sometimes after running for a >>>>>>> few >>>>>>> minutes, sometimes after a few hours. There are no incoming requests >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the the wsgi app logged near the time of these crashes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For example: >>>>>>> [Mon May 30 22:35:43.040387 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 2575903:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] mod_wsgi (pid=2575903): Initializing Python. >>>>>>> [Mon May 30 22:35:43.099053 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 2575903:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] mod_wsgi (pid=2575903): Attach interpreter ''. >>>>>>> [Tue May 31 01:29:06.434000 2022] [core:notice] [pid 2876203:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] AH00052: child pid 2511562 exit signal Segmentation >>>>>>> fault >>>>>>> (11) >>>>>>> [Tue May 31 01:29:07.466268 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 2605661:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] mod_wsgi (pid=2605661): Initializing Python. >>>>>>> [Tue May 31 01:29:07.517413 2022] [wsgi:info] [pid 2605661:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] mod_wsgi (pid=2605661): Attach interpreter ''. >>>>>>> [Tue May 31 04:14:59.405491 2022] [core:notice] [pid 2876203:tid >>>>>>> 139929303559104] AH00052: child pid 2575903 exit signal Segmentation >>>>>>> fault >>>>>>> (11) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My wsgi app is still being tested so other than infrequent requests >>>>>>> generated by me and a few other people there is very little traffic to >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> However the web server itself is handling some continuous moderate >>>>>>> volume >>>>>>> of traffic to other apps including to C, Python and PHP CGI apps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I know about the environment (if any other info would be useful >>>>>>> I'll try and dig it up): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $ cat /etc/*release >>>>>>> PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apache, mod_wsgi, python were all built from source by the site's >>>>>>> administrator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are (at least) two Python's on the system: >>>>>>> /usr/bin/python3 -- 3.9.2 >>>>>>> /usr/local/bin/python3 -- 3.10.1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apachche/mod_wsgi is was supposedly built against python-3.10. From >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the http server header: >>>>>>> Apache/2.4.54 (Unix) OpenSSL/1.1.1n mod_wsgi/4.9.4 Python/3.10 >>>>>>> PHP/7.4.23 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Apache .conf file uses: >>>>>>> WSGIDaemonProcess myapp processes=2 threads=10 \ >>>>>>> display-name=apache2-myapp locale=en_US.UTF-8 lang=en_US.UTF-8 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $ /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -V >>>>>>> Server version: Apache/2.4.54 (Unix) >>>>>>> Server built: Oct 13 2022 00:07:38 >>>>>>> Server's Module Magic Number: 20120211:124 >>>>>>> Server loaded: APR 1.6.5, APR-UTIL 1.6.1, PCRE 10.36 2020-12-04 >>>>>>> Compiled using: APR 1.6.5, APR-UTIL 1.6.1, PCRE 10.36 2020-12-04 >>>>>>> Architecture: 64-bit >>>>>>> Server MPM: event >>>>>>> threaded: yes (fixed thread count) >>>>>>> forked: yes (variable process count) >>>>>>> Server compiled with.... >>>>>>> -D APR_HAS_SENDFILE >>>>>>> -D APR_HAS_MMAP >>>>>>> -D APR_HAVE_IPV6 (IPv4-mapped addresses enabled) >>>>>>> -D APR_USE_SYSVSEM_SERIALIZE >>>>>>> -D APR_USE_PTHREAD_SERIALIZE >>>>>>> -D SINGLE_LISTEN_UNSERIALIZED_ACCEPT >>>>>>> -D APR_HAS_OTHER_CHILD >>>>>>> -D AP_HAVE_RELIABLE_PIPED_LOGS >>>>>>> -D DYNAMIC_MODULE_LIMIT=256 >>>>>>> -D HTTPD_ROOT="/usr/local/apache2" >>>>>>> -D SUEXEC_BIN="/usr/local/apache2/bin/suexec" >>>>>>> -D DEFAULT_PIDLOG="logs/httpd.pid" >>>>>>> -D DEFAULT_SCOREBOARD="logs/apache_runtime_status" >>>>>>> -D DEFAULT_ERRORLOG="logs/error_log" >>>>>>> -D AP_TYPES_CONFIG_FILE="conf/mime.types" >>>>>>> -D SERVER_CONFIG_FILE="conf/httpd.conf" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $ bin/httpd -M >>>>>>> Loaded Modules: >>>>>>> core_module (static) >>>>>>> so_module (static) >>>>>>> http_module (static) >>>>>>> mpm_event_module (static) >>>>>>> authz_core_module (shared) >>>>>>> authz_host_module (shared) >>>>>>> unixd_module (shared) >>>>>>> dir_module (shared) >>>>>>> access_compat_module (shared) >>>>>>> env_module (shared) >>>>>>> alias_module (shared) >>>>>>> log_config_module (shared) >>>>>>> ssl_module (shared) >>>>>>> mime_module (shared) >>>>>>> socache_shmcb_module (shared) >>>>>>> setenvif_module (shared) >>>>>>> cgid_module (shared) >>>>>>> userdir_module (shared) >>>>>>> headers_module (shared) >>>>>>> rewrite_module (shared) >>>>>>> autoindex_module (shared) >>>>>>> negotiation_module (shared) >>>>>>> dav_module (shared) >>>>>>> deflate_module (shared) >>>>>>> info_module (shared) >>>>>>> status_module (shared) >>>>>>> wsgi_module (shared) >>>>>>> evasive24_module (shared) >>>>>>> php7_module (shared) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "modwsgi" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to modwsgi+u...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/modwsgi/e06f789f-6023-417e-8b10-1f570adc069cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 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