Hi M Boaters, No pictures to show, but I have solved my trailer retrieval problems. It was one of those spring projects that I finished about the middle of August. I have been out more than ten times since then and I have not found any draw backs. I think the biggest improvement is a taller winch post. The winch is now higher, and the bow roller is well below the winch. I stand on the post to crank the boat in. On retrieval, I walk to the bow, and hook the winch strap. I then step off the boat and step onto the trailer winch post. I actually stand on a horizontal length of rectangular tubing that supports the outboard to the front and the bow roller to the rear. Without my weight, the bow floats several inches higher. If I need to, I center the boat on the trailer. Since most of the weight of the empty boat is floating, neither cranking nor centering requires much strength. A small child could do it.
I crank until the strap is about the same length as when the boat and trailer are on dry ground. The boat will be slightly �bow high�, maybe by two or three inches. If I judge correctly, I will not need to crank any more when I get to the parking lot. My success rate has been in the 25% to 30% range. When I have been off, I have not had to crank more than half a turn. Again, little strength is required. I bought a two speed winch but I have not used �LOW�. When cranking the boat in the bow actually rolls along the roller. I can see the roller turning. I believe this happens because of the separation between the bow roller and the winch strap. I also believe this allows the boat to come to rest at (or near) the desired position on the trailer, as the trailer is pulled from the water. However, I have not had an opportunity to watch someone else pull the boat from the water to verify this. My arrangement is in contrast to the small distance between the winch strap and bow roller that is commonly found. I think that the bow of the boat is usually cranked in hard against the roller. In this condition, it seems to me that the boat is only free to pivot about the roller, and is not allowed to roll. If it does not roll, it will not settle into the proper position when the trailer is out of the water. I would like to say that I analyzed the situation and thought of a brilliant design to rectify the problems, yielding a solution that allows the hull to roll freely and provides a platform to get my weight off the bow. In reality I was lucky. The arrangement was driven by the location of the motor mount. It was easier to put the bow roller on the back end of the same tube. I use steep ramps, which means I may have had a different problem than someone who uses a ramp with less of a grade. I am curious as to how this will work on a shallower ramp. I also use a tongue extension. I wanted the winch post to carry the mast and outboard motor. I also wanted to raise the winch, because the old winch would pull down on the bow stem fitting. I believed this compounded the �bow down on retrieval� problem. When the boat and trailer are on level ground, the strap from my new winch is on a horizontal line with the bow stem fitting. At the top of the post, I have a roller to support the mast. It is maybe four inches below the bow pulpit tubing. Under the roller is the winch. The strap feeds from the bottom. Below the winch, I have a horizontal rectangular tube. The front part of this tubing is the outboard motor carrier. The rear part supports the bow roller. The tube is maybe 18 inches below the winch. The bow roller is about 18 inches behind the winch. I estimate that my bow roller is located at the same height as that of a boat with a bow eye. I do not have a bow eye. I thought about installing one, but I am glad I did not. It is easier to reach the winch handle on the tall winch post from the boat, if I need to crank in enough to step on to the post. I carry my boat hook with me when I go to the bow. If I am by myself, I winch out five to six feet of strap, and I do not back quite so far in the water. I use the hook to pick up the end of the strap. I plant the hook on the bottom and use it to brace myself when I go out on the winch post. I also use the hook as a brace when I walk back along the tongue if I am solo. I expected the bottom to be too slick, but I have found it gives solid support. With the hook, I am able to keep my feet dry. I should point out that if I am doing this by myself I wear a life jacket, in case I slip. Also, in the parking lot, the height of the winch means you have to watch out or you will bump your head on the handle. If you think the handle might suddenly spin, you must make sure it will not strike your noodle. I bought most everything from Champion Trailers in Louisiana. They have a web site: http://www.championtrailers.com/ The winch post is their biggest one, which was about half as tall as I wanted. To get the desired height, I used two pieces of galvanized channel. The length of the channel is about five and a half feet, or whatever the max UPS shipping length is. I drilled holes through the channel and winch post and bolted the channel to the sides of the post. This gave me a tall, narrow �goal post� arrangement, when viewed from the front or rear. Near the top of the channel I drilled holes in both sides to support the mast roller. The roller is bolted between the two pieces of channel. I had a piece of steel plate cut to the size of the winch base. I drilled two holes through this plate to match the winch base. The winch goes in front of the channel. The plate goes in back of the channel. Two bolts go in the holes, and when tightened they clamp everything together. The winch and plate act like the jaws of a vise. The strap runs through the middle of the two pieces of channel, and below the plate. I wanted this arrangement, so that the force of the winch is taken by the channel. If the winch was mounted on the back side, the winch load would be carried by only the bolt threads. This gave enough room for the handle to swing without hitting the bow. Also, it was easy to match the height of the winch with the bow stem fitting. Just above the top of the fabricated winch post is the horizontal tubing for the bow roller and outboard mount. It is galvanized tubing; I think 3 inches by 4 inches, maybe two feet long. I drilled two holes through the channel and tubing to bolt it in place. I will post some pictures when I finish the roll The major goal of this project was to prevent the front edge of the keel from dropping below the front roller on the trailer. I went from three keel rollers to eight, and also added a keel guide. Those details will have to wait for another day. I think these modifications helped the retrieval situation, however I believe the taller winch post had the biggest impact. (I also replaced the springs, axle and hubs.) I would suggest the winch post is the first area to address, in order to: 1) insure that the strap runs horizontally from the winch to the boat, to ease cranking. 2) move the bow roller away from the winch strap, so that the hull is free to roll. 3) establish a place to stand on the trailer when retrieving the boat, so the bow floats higher for easier cranking. As a last resort I would try more rollers or a carpet covered board to support the keel along the length of movement. I float my boat on and off, the keel rollers really do not roll. A board should work fine. If I encounter a short ramp I may be able to get the boat on and off with the rollers. However, I would need to replace my slightly curved bunk boards that hug the hull with straight ones. I decided I needed to go sailing more than I needed new bunk boards. If I were starting over, I would use aluminum rather than galvanized steel wherever possible. Steel is heavier and harder to drill. I spent a lot of time drilling holes. The admirable had to help me lift the winch post assembly onto the trailer. She also helped me bolt on the winch. When I launch solo, I give the winch strap a few feet of slack. I let the boat float off the trailer, and then pull the trailer out so that the tongue is out of the water. Again, I use my boat hook as a brace to walk along the tongue. I climb up on the winch post, and then step onto the bow. The bow is resting on the bunks. To get the boat off the trailer, I sit on the transom and goose the outboard. My feet stay dry. The results have been better than I anticipated. To say that I was elated at the ease of retrieval would be an understatement. Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- message from Don Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> attached:
--- Begin Message --- Several years ago when this subject was being discussed, one of the solutions written up was to angle the bow-stop bracket down 10 to 15 degrees. I cut a small wedge from the bracket (non-adjustable) and had it welded back together, sloped down about 10 degrees. This small modification made a big difference getting the bow to mate with the yoke. Before I made the mod. the boat wanted to come up under the yoke. Its is not a perfect solution, I still need to crank the boat within a couple of inches, then use the brake-and-slide to gain the last inch or two. This description is for a 1984 M-15 on the original Trailrite trailer.Don Haas M15-248
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Doug King wrote:
Bill,--- End Message ---
I guess it depends on how far away from the yoke you are. I can generally crank mine up so the bow is within the "V" of the yoke, so it can't slide off to one side. I think the wings of the V-stop would allow me to be maybe 4 inches back and still hit the "V". Plus, my side bunkers are adjusted such that the bow can't get too far off-center.On the Performance brand trailers, there is not only a 2x6 running the length of the trailer that the whole keel rests on, but two 2x6 "bottom bunkers" sitting vertically along each side of it, all carpeted, which may help the boat slide easier, especially when they're wet. They are adjustable in width for the keel. I think I'd have to completely miss this slot for the bow to miss up front. I made the chore of hitting the slot easy this past summer by adding keel-guides at the rear of the trailer.
Even so, I'll slide it up only a couple of inches at a time, then crank in, which keeps the bow in line. That means two quick stops and you're there. Works for me, anyway. Used it many times on a 26' trailerable of similar weight with no ill effects.
I agree of course that leaving the bow too far off while running down the road could cause problems. Maybe another solution is to get one of those two-speed trailer winches that would make cranking the boat all the way up possible.
Doug King
At 07:16 AM 11/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
Jerry Williams,Go carefully with this technique. The first and only time I tried it, the boat missed the yoke and badly scratched the gel coat while gliding by. If you leave the boat a few inches away from the yoke, this could happen if you need to brake unexpectedly in traffic. Unless I am moving the boat only a short distance, at slow speeds, I make sure the bow is nestled into the yoke.
The previous owner of my rig felt the bow was not adequately supported and mounted an auxilliary roller to support the bow. However, lifting the bow onto that roller is a chore, so I like your idea of an intermediate roller to guide the bow upwards.
On my trailer, the post on which the winch and yoke are mounted is adjustable. Can you move yours back?
Bill Riker
M-15 #184
Storm Petrel-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Doug King
Sent: November 29, 2002 1:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: M_Boats: The yoke's on meI don't know how much it really matters as long as the weight distribution to the trailer hitch is enough, but one option that I and a few others here do routinely is, once the boat is cranked up as far as it will go, get going a few miles an hour in the tow vehicle and hit the brakes. The boat will slide forward pretty easily, especially if contact surfaces are still wet from hauling out. You can get to where you gauge the speed pretty well to push it up a few inches. Crank it snug and you're ready to go.
Doug King
At 03:04 PM 11/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
It still did not fit snuggly into the yoke. I am beginning to think the boat sits in its most comfortable position in the bunk boards and the snug fit to the yoke is not that important. It trailers smoothly even thogh the bow is a few inches away from the yoke. Am I correct that this is a non issue?I like the extra roller and mounting plank and will definately keep this set up. As the photos show, the roller is ownly there to help lift the boat to the angle of the trailer. Once it sits in the bunk boards the boat is several inches from the additional roller.
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Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
