Aw, Rich, c'mon... that Creature poster didn't sell because the asking
price was too high is all... as you said about the Metropolis offering,
anyone on this list interested in buying that poster would have seen
Diane's statement about it here and felt confident in purchasing it --
had the price been reasonable. Just my partial answer to your question,
since I don't believe I ever posted a comment on that particular
Creature thread and so don't have a dog in that hunt.
I would point out that at the time the Creature thread started, we were
in the midst of the breaking stories on the Universal Horror fakes and a
fake linen backed Creature had just been recently identified. It was
perfectly reasonable at the time for people to wonder about the
authenticity of this or any other higher-priced linen backed poster.
Knowing what we now know (and most us still don't know the whole story
or the massive extent of this situation) I think *everyone* should
question the authenticity of *any* higher-priced linen backed poster at
this point -- and hold off purchasing until some kind of provenance or
third-party information can be presented with it (as with Diane's
statement on this one). Now, look, I realize dealers don't like this
idea one little but that's how I feel about pricey linen backed posters
at this point and I'm sure I'm not alone. The sooner the selling
community gets together (hey, have a conference in Dallas) and
establishes some kind of provenance's and independent verification
system, these kinds of questions are going to be asked by potential
buyers. And well they should be.
So, to finish answering this questions, asking about a poster on this
list is precisely what this list it for. It allows for the soliciting of
not just opinions about a poster, but in this case caused Diane to step
forward and confirm the poster's authenticity. How else would that
provenance have come to light if not for a question about it on this
list. MOPO isn't just a place for sellers to post the FA messages. It it
were, very shortly there would be no one but sellers as members of MOPO.
I'm not sure what you objected to in my comment about the Metropolis
poster, unless it was just that you are friends with Ken. After all, the
first thing I said was that it was a beautiful poster (who could argue
with that). Then I said was that the asking price of $2 million bucks
was absurd, since this poster sold a couple of years ago for $700,000.
Sure, a seller can ask whatever they want, but $2 million is clearly
nowhere near a reasonable price to expect to get for this poster at this
time (maybe 20 years from now it might be). That is three times what the
owner paid for it a couple of years ago and that $700 K was obviously
the high-water price at that point -- the most anyone interested in that
poster was willing to pay a couple of years ago. Which is why my
mentioning the recession was also perfectly appropriate. While
collectible prices may hold up better in a recession than most other
things, in an economic collapse as serious as this one, you just don't
get the kind of continual, ever-increasing price run-ups that would
allow such a huge jump in what people are willing to pay for this poster
in just a couple of years. Even if a museum wanted it, their acquisition
budgets have been cut back as well.
You ask "How do you reliably price such gems that are in such short
supply that only a small few people around the world can own them".
Well, you know perfectly well how. If you want to sell it you put it out
there for auction and see what the market is willing to pay, as Todd
just did with his Dracula. You also know that the proper strategy for
this is to start the bidding at a realistic level, as Heritage did with
Todd's poster, and see where it goes from there. And besides, if Ken
really wants to sell this poster, we all know that eBay is not the place
to do it. Christies is.
$2 million is not even remotely a realistic expectation and everyone
knows it. I was just stating the obvious... perhaps that was what you
really objected to? I dunno...
-- JR
Richard Halegua Comic Art wrote:
I have a question for our members:
why is it so common that people on this board & others feel the need
to "thread crap" on people's items that are listed for sale???
It happens all to often and is almost always unjustified
For instance, the recent dumping on the CFTBL 1sheet that was listed
on fleaBay of which there was so much chat on these boards questioning
it's authenticity, even after Diane Jeffrey pointed out that she had
linenbacked the poster in question. The poster went unsold and you
have to wonder if the thread-crapping by certain members affected the
fellow's ability to sell his poster, and what for??
I have no argument with anyone who makes justified comments on
thieves, but ruining someone's reputation or ability to sell something
they own is really something that goes over the line.
Now I'm not saying that JR is ruining anything on Schacter's
Metropolis poster in particular. Largely because anyone interested in
that poster could care less what anyone on this board except a small
few advanced collectors might think, but I have no doubt that bashing
on some items (like the CFTBL 1sh) affects the sellers, and you have
to ask - "for what purpose?"
JR is a friend of mine, and I do believe it's his right to comment on
postings to this board like it is anyone else's right.. but there are
ways to disagree without being disagreeable and that's the difference
between _"thoughtful commentary"_ and _"thread crapping"_ and
honestly, I think JR is off base on this one and a tad over the line
Questioning the authenticity of the CFTBL poster should have begun by
questioning the seller directly, and getting the required information
to make justifiable comments. It should not begin by indicating
something is hinky. That's just poor journalism due to a lack of
understanding what the facts are. It's alot like Sarah Palin calling a
proposal to fund "end of life discussion with your doctor" a
Government "Death Panel".. It's a total crock of shit, and those posts
will follow that CFTBL poster around for some time. How can anyone
think that's right?? It's like the guy who gets called a pedophile and
is on the front page of every newspaper in America and then when the
facts reveal that the claim was a lie, the retraction is on page 23 in
small print. His life is ruined because of all the sewing circle
nannys who needed gossip.
To the Metropolis poster.. who can say what the poster is worth?? Or
who can say what Ken is justified in when profiting on his possession??
No question, the poster is very rare, although my understanding is
that there are more copies extant than the four he mentions in his
listing that are held in institutional collections. regardless, the
poster is what is referred to in art circles as _"priceless"_ just as
Todd's (and Borst's) copies of posters like Dracula. How do you
reliably price such gems that are in such short supply that only a
small few people around the world can own them??
Do I feel the poster is worth $2,000,000??
To be honest, I don't have an opinion on that factor. It belongs to
Ken, you can't find another if you try. He can ask whatever he feels
like asking. If someone wants to fork over $2m, that's between him and
Ken, just like if someone wants to give Todd $995,000 for his Dracula
poster - that's between Todd and the buyer.
We're not talking about a Forbidden Planet poster that is easily
found, or a Day the Earth Stood Still or a Dr No Quad, all posters
that can be had for a certain price and if someone were to ask $50,000
for any of them that we can all point to market sales indicating true
values.. The Metropolis poster is the equivalent of _"one of a kind
rarity"_ and is not subject to the same equivocations as posters that
you can find if you're looking.
For the record, I'm not shocked at the $2,000,000 asking price Ken has
on the poster - I'm shocked that he is interested in selling the
poster at all seeing as he worked so hard to put the money together to
buy it and saved so many months..
Rich
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