If THAT'S not proof, I don't know what is!

On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 8:39 AM David Lieberman <cinemasterpie...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> one last thing:
>
> Every single one of the former print shop employees we have received these
> posters from has referred to them as "proofs".
>
> Dave
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 6:38 AM David Lieberman <
> cinemasterpie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> However one wishes to describe them:
>>
>> A. Uncut Overrun Poster
>> B. Printer's Test
>> C. Printer's Proof
>>
>> Regardless of what they really truly are, and I doubt that anyone will
>> ever have a definitive answer, they are rarer, much more valuable, and much
>> more desirable than a regular one sheet. Poster collectors have spoken time
>> and time again by paying high prices at auction and at retail.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 6:13 AM <texasmu...@web.de> wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I have do not doubt that they are original and that employees took them
>>> home. My question remains, though: Are these actually test prints or just
>>> uncut onesheets? After all, that color control bar was on every single
>>> sheet they printed and the posters were cut to size afterwards.
>>>
>>> Unlike digital printing, where you can print  (and usually pay for)
>>> exact numbers, with analog offset the majority of the cost is in the
>>> prepress process. While it is perfectly possible to print five or ten test
>>> posters, once the actual production has started, it did not make much of a
>>> difference if they printed 10,000 or 11,000 copies. In fact, it is
>>> basically impossible to print a perfectly 'exact' number on those big
>>> machines. So there usually was an overrun, and it is perfectly plausible
>>> that employees would've been allowed to take some of them home. In case of
>>> STAR WARS it may have even been an intentional overrun, who knows.
>>>
>>> My point being: In my book, an uncut overrun poster is just that. For
>>> me, it does not qualify as a 'test print' or 'printer's proof'. It's simply
>>> a onesheet that has not been cut down to size.
>>>
>>> Helmut
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 26. November 2023 um 13:49 Uhr
>>> *Von:* "David Lieberman" <cinemasterpie...@gmail.com>
>>> *An:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
>>> *Betreff:* Re: [MOPO] STAR WARS PROOFS 💥 CineMasterpieces VINTAGE
>>> MOVIE POSTERS
>>> one last note......the proofs that were made into book covers were from
>>> REVENGE OF THE JEDI.
>>>
>>> now everybody scream!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 5:27 AM David Lieberman <
>>> cinemasterpie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I forgot ANIMAL HOUSE, the advance and regular one sheets. Another
>>>> title with a lot of proofs.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 5:16 AM David Lieberman <
>>>> cinemasterpie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "why do we see so many of the STAR WARS tests in comparison to any
>>>>> other title?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Great question Helmut. I wondered about this for a long time. After
>>>>> acquiring several of these proofs from at least four or five different
>>>>> former print shop employees over the past 20 years, I finally had a 
>>>>> lengthy
>>>>> discussion with one of them and his answer was this. First of all, it 
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> just Star Wars, there are a few other titles from that era 1977-1980 where
>>>>> a lot of proofs exist. There are a lot of JAWS 2, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE
>>>>> THIRD KIND, and a few other nothing titles that no one really cares about.
>>>>> A lot of these haven't survived or haven't been noticed on ebay or other
>>>>> auction sites over the past 40+ years because no one really wants them and
>>>>> they don't sell for much. Secondly......these former employees were
>>>>> basically just kids at the time mostly in their early twenties. They took
>>>>> stuff home all the time that was meant for the dumpster because they were
>>>>> allowed to. They took stuff that they thought was "cool". Star Wars was
>>>>> cool and became collectible almost immediately. One of our clients who 
>>>>> used
>>>>> to work at GORE GRAPHICS told me about his kids in the 1980's who took 
>>>>> some
>>>>> of his proofs and made book covers for their school books to show off to
>>>>> their classmates.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 4:47 AM Helmut Hamm <texasmu...@web.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever you want to call them, test printings or proofs: When it
>>>>>> comes to STAR WARS, there way too many of these around for my taste. 
>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>> alone has auctioned more than thirty copies of the Style C Onesheet 'test
>>>>>> print'. Frankly, I can't see any difference to the regular onesheets.
>>>>>> Actually, they just look like untrimmed onesheets to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to all of these being 'test prints' that were 'sent out to the
>>>>>> client for confirmation': For all I know, this is NOT common practice for
>>>>>> print shops anywhere in the world, and it never was. If that was the 
>>>>>> case,
>>>>>> why do we see so many of the STAR WARS tests in comparison to any other
>>>>>> title? This does not make any sense to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's an actual test print for the BLADE RUNNER onesheet:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.filmposter.net/en/blade-runner-original-release-us-test-proof-movie-poster.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As all print shops do, the printer saved a small number of these
>>>>>> posters (for all I know, it was more than five, but less than ten) for
>>>>>> their archive. These prints came to the market after the company folded 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> somebody cleared out their inventory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you can see, the image is very different from the final onesheet.
>>>>>> Apparently, somebody took a serious effort to get things right, but in 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> pre-digital days, creating a test like this was seriously expensive and
>>>>>> therefore a rare exception, not common practice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helmut
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 25. November 2023 um 14:05 Uhr
>>>>>> *Von:* "Bruce Hershenson" <brucehershen...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> *An:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
>>>>>> *Betreff:* Re: [MOPO] BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2023 💥 CineMasterpieces
>>>>>> VINTAGE MOVIE POSTERS ��
>>>>>> I agree he has a MASSIVE amount of super helpful information and
>>>>>> bravo to Dave. especially where he helps newbies not get ripped off by 
>>>>>> eBay
>>>>>> sellers openly selling fakes..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But does he still call "printer's test" posters "proofs"? I hope not,
>>>>>> because 99% of the ones circulating in the hobby are test posters that 
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> printed to get people's reactions before the final print run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The few true PROOF posters are sent back to the printer with markings
>>>>>> as to what needs to be changed OR have an approval stamped area where it 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> OK'ed for printing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 6:40 AM David Kusumoto <
>>>>>> davidmkusum...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't know how many others are on Dave Lieberman's newsletter but I
>>>>>>> hadn't visited his site in a long time and I went straight to his Star 
>>>>>>> Wars
>>>>>>> section - and I was floored by the wealth of information about almost 
>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>> known poster iteration of Star Wars - from concept to its celebrated
>>>>>>> inaugural year of 1977 - (theatrical and commercial) - in roughly
>>>>>>> chronological order.  The section includes detailed images and 
>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>> of known fakes, including personal testimonials of oddball things he
>>>>>>> concedes he was initially fooled about like a lot of us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He also provides a detailed study of printer's proofs - which -
>>>>>>> while I've never had the desire to collect nor own, is still interesting
>>>>>>> insofar there are collectors who DO love and pay $$$ for them.  He 
>>>>>>> explains
>>>>>>> how they came to be, their ubiquitous presence and the differences 
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> PMS (pantone) vs. CMYK proofs, which came first, etc. - and why it 
>>>>>>> matters
>>>>>>> to some collectors and not to others.  Great stuff for SW completists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Encourage anyone interested to venture over there and take a gander,
>>>>>>> not just at the massive Star Wars section - but also other sections,
>>>>>>> including the one where he re-lives the entire minty white insert and 
>>>>>>> lobby
>>>>>>> card counterfeit saga - from his own point of view as a gallery owner of
>>>>>>> many years in AZ.  He further provides in one section - a long list of
>>>>>>> titles and accompanying formats he implicates as having been faked - in
>>>>>>> line with other dealers who've said the same.  He also sources the
>>>>>>> geographic locations of some suspect dealers who - to this day - are 
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> peddling these things as originals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between this, eMoviePoster, Learn About Movie Posters, Walter Reuben
>>>>>>> and others - this is a storehouse of information grouped by category /
>>>>>>> genre that's available right now - for free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best, David near San Diego, still the biggest fan of the never-faked
>>>>>>> (to date) - and grossly underrated Star Wars half-sheet from 1977 with
>>>>>>> alternate Jung art.  Cinemasterpieces image below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. - The Chantrell art on the Style C is probably my true fav
>>>>>>> among the SW one-sheets - were it not for the fakes and not even knowing
>>>>>>> until recently about the "hair on Leia's back" as a marker on that 
>>>>>>> style -
>>>>>>> sort of a "bookend" to the style A repro.  But I still think the 
>>>>>>> alternate
>>>>>>> Jung landscape art on the half-sheet is excellent and affordable - and
>>>>>>> after nearly 50 years - it still puzzles me how unloved it is by so 
>>>>>>> many.
>>>>>>> (Not the centerpiece of anyone's SW collection that I know of.)  I know 
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> will never reach the heights of a Casablanca of Oz half-sheet in my
>>>>>>> remaining lifetime - (which are admittedly more rare) - but maybe future
>>>>>>> generations of Disney fans will.  -d.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* David Lieberman <cinemasterpie...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 24, 2023 3:03 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2023 STARTS NOW 💥 CineMasterpieces
>>>>>>> VINTAGE MOVIE POSTERS 💥
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
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>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>>
>>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>>
>>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
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>>
>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>
>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>
>> President
>>
>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>
>> 602 309 0500
>>
>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>  |  JAMES
>> BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  **V.I.P.
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>
> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>
> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>
> President
>
> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>
> 602 309 0500
>
> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>  |  JAMES
> BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  **V.I.P.
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>
> *    REFERENCES
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/customertestimonials.htm>  |  FAQ
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/faq.htm>  |  ABOUT US
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/aboutus.htm>  |  **WE BUY POSTERS
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/consignment.htm#buy>*
>
> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>    <cinemasterpie...@gmail.com>
> <https://www.facebook.com/VintageOriginalMoviePosters/>
> <https://www.ebay.com/str/cinemasterpieces>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-lieberman-cinemasterpieces/>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2I8OsG6pbc3eRUr6h7Qhg>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
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>
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-- 
Bruce Hershenson and the other 22 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take
lunch)
our site <http://www.emovieposter.com/>
our auctions <http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html>

* Complete Buyer Protection
<http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/20120625ad_emovieposter_no_buyer_beware_buyer_warranty.jpg>
- *No time limit on our guarantees & *NO* buyer beware
* Hershenson Help Hotline
<http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/20120906_mcw_ad_hershenson_help_hotline_forsite.jpg>
- *Direct line to Bruce (our owner!) for urgent problems
Also, please read the following three pages of in-depth* Customer Reviews *of
our company * - Page 1
<http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page1.jpg>,
Page 2
<http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page2.jpg>,
Page 3
<http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page3.jpg>*,
which shows you in our customers' own words exactly what makes our company
and our auctions so very different from all others!

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