Ron, sorry to hear you're sore
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Ron Kulp <xa...@rocketmail.com> wrote: > Dave, > Exactly what I was aiming for, I am > Sincerely glad that you returned to > The MD. Yourself and Arlo, Andre > Too, have communicated the ideas > I also hold but unfortunately I am > Unable to express them with the level > Of proficiency that you gentlemen have displayed at the moment. > Having sustained a few painful > Injuries it has really limited my ability > To contribute the way I would like. > > Thank you > > Ron > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 14, 2014, at 11:08 AM, david <dmbucha...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Just some relevant quotes on the topic.... Obedient mules or free and > creative persons. > > > > > > Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The > principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not > Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing what > really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. > > > > ...The whole Quality concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that > mysterious, individual, internal goal of each creative person, on the > blackboard at last." > > > > In other words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. > And they don't really make any sense until you have something to say first. > When you have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the > rules become a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. > > > > > > > > At first the classes were excited by this exercise, but as time went on > they became bored. What he meant by Quality was obvious. They obviously > knew what it was too, and so they lost interest in listening. Their > question now was 'All right, we know what Quality is. How do we get > it?'Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The > principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not > Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing what > really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. What > had started out as a heresy from traditional rhetoric turned into a > beautiful introduction to it.He singled out aspects of Quality such as > unity, vividness, authority, economy, sensitivity, clarity, emphasis, flow, > suspense, [brilliance, precision, proportion, depth and so on]; kept each > of these as poorly defined as Quality itself, but demonstrated them by the > same class reading techniques. He showed how the asp > ec > > t of Quality called unity, the hanging-togetherness of a story, could be > improved with a technique called an outline. The authority of an argument > could be jacked up with a technique called footnotes, which gives > authoritative reference. Outlines and footnotes are standard things taught > in all freshman composition classes, but now as devices for improving > Quality they had a purpose.Now that was over with. By reversing a basic > rule that all things which are to be taught must first be defined, he had > found a way out of all this. He was pointing to no principle, no rule of > good writing, no theory but he was pointing to something, nevertheless, > that was very real, whose reality they couldn't deny. The vacuum that had > been created by the withholding of grades (another experiment he created) > was suddenly filled with the positive goal of Quality, and the whole thing > fit together. Students, astonished, came by his office and said, "I used to > just hate English. Now I spend more time > > > on it than anything else." Not just one or two. Many. The whole Quality > concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that mysterious, individual, > internal goal of each creative person, on the blackboard at last."In other > words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. And they > don't really make any sense until you have something to say first. When you > have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the rules become > a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. The students > discovered this on their own. Well, not completely on their own. But he > began to wonder why it worked. And he soon realised that this was no small > gimmick. > > > > > > The students biggest problem was a slave mentality which had been built > into him by years of carrot-and -whip grading, a mule mentality which said, > "If you don't whip me, I won't work." He didn't get whipped. He didn't > work. And the cart of civilization, which he supposedly was being trained > to pull, was just going to have to creak along a little slower without him. > > > > This is a tragedy, however, only if you presume that the cart of > civilization, "the system", is pulled by mules. ...The purpose of > abolishing grades and degrees is not to punish mules or to get rid of them > but to provide an environment in which that mule can turn into a free man. > > > > The hypothetical student, still a mule, would drift around for a while. > He would get another kind of education quite as valuable as the one hed > abandoned, in what used to be called the "school of hard knocks." Instead > of wasting money and time as a high-status mule, he would now have to get a > job as a low-status mule, maybe as a mechanic. Actually his real status > would go up. He would be making a contribution for a change. Maybe thats > what he would do for the rest of his life. Maybe hed found his level. But > dont count on it. > > > > In time six months; five years, perhaps a change could easily begin to > take place. He would become less and less satisfied with a kind of dumb, > day-to-day shopwork. His creative intelligence, stifled by too much theory > and too many grades in college, would now become re-awakened by the boredom > of the shop. Thousands of hours of frustrating mechanical problems would > have made him more interested in machine design. He would like to design > machinery himself. He'd think he could do a better job. He would try > modifying a few engines, meet with success, look for more success, but feel > blocked because he didn't have the theoretical information, he'd now find a > brand of theoretical information which he'd have a lot of respect for, > namely, mechanical engineering. > > > > So he would come back to our degreeless and gradeless school, but with a > difference. Hed no longer be a grade-motivated person. He'd be a > knowledge-motivated person. He would need no external pushing to learn. His > push would come from inside. He'd be a free man. He wouldn't need a lot of > discipline to shape him up. In fact, if the instructors were slacking on > the job he would be likely to shape them up by asking rude questions. He'd > be there to learn something, would be paying to learn something and they'd > better come up with it. > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html