Thanks John, Broken ribs make life Difficult, coupled with The herniated disc it Really effects me and My ability to think.
Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:05 PM, John Carl <ridgecoy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ron, > > sorry to hear you're sore > > >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Ron Kulp <xa...@rocketmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Exactly what I was aiming for, I am >> Sincerely glad that you returned to >> The MD. Yourself and Arlo, Andre >> Too, have communicated the ideas >> I also hold but unfortunately I am >> Unable to express them with the level >> Of proficiency that you gentlemen have displayed at the moment. >> Having sustained a few painful >> Injuries it has really limited my ability >> To contribute the way I would like. >> >> Thank you >> >> Ron >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jan 14, 2014, at 11:08 AM, david <dmbucha...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Just some relevant quotes on the topic.... Obedient mules or free and >> creative persons. >>> >>> >>> Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The >> principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not >> Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing what >> really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. >>> >>> ...The whole Quality concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that >> mysterious, individual, internal goal of each creative person, on the >> blackboard at last." >>> >>> In other words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. >> And they don't really make any sense until you have something to say first. >> When you have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the >> rules become a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> At first the classes were excited by this exercise, but as time went on >> they became bored. What he meant by Quality was obvious. They obviously >> knew what it was too, and so they lost interest in listening. Their >> question now was 'All right, we know what Quality is. How do we get >> it?'Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The >> principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not >> Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing what >> really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. What >> had started out as a heresy from traditional rhetoric turned into a >> beautiful introduction to it.He singled out aspects of Quality such as >> unity, vividness, authority, economy, sensitivity, clarity, emphasis, flow, >> suspense, [brilliance, precision, proportion, depth and so on]; kept each >> of these as poorly defined as Quality itself, but demonstrated them by the >> same class reading techniques. He showed how the asp >> ec >>> t of Quality called unity, the hanging-togetherness of a story, could be >> improved with a technique called an outline. The authority of an argument >> could be jacked up with a technique called footnotes, which gives >> authoritative reference. Outlines and footnotes are standard things taught >> in all freshman composition classes, but now as devices for improving >> Quality they had a purpose.Now that was over with. By reversing a basic >> rule that all things which are to be taught must first be defined, he had >> found a way out of all this. He was pointing to no principle, no rule of >> good writing, no theory but he was pointing to something, nevertheless, >> that was very real, whose reality they couldn't deny. The vacuum that had >> been created by the withholding of grades (another experiment he created) >> was suddenly filled with the positive goal of Quality, and the whole thing >> fit together. Students, astonished, came by his office and said, "I used to >> just hate English. Now I spend more time >> >>> on it than anything else." Not just one or two. Many. The whole Quality >> concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that mysterious, individual, >> internal goal of each creative person, on the blackboard at last."In other >> words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. And they >> don't really make any sense until you have something to say first. When you >> have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the rules become >> a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. The students >> discovered this on their own. Well, not completely on their own. But he >> began to wonder why it worked. And he soon realised that this was no small >> gimmick. >>> >>> >>> The students biggest problem was a slave mentality which had been built >> into him by years of carrot-and -whip grading, a mule mentality which said, >> "If you don't whip me, I won't work." He didn't get whipped. He didn't >> work. And the cart of civilization, which he supposedly was being trained >> to pull, was just going to have to creak along a little slower without him. >>> >>> This is a tragedy, however, only if you presume that the cart of >> civilization, "the system", is pulled by mules. ...The purpose of >> abolishing grades and degrees is not to punish mules or to get rid of them >> but to provide an environment in which that mule can turn into a free man. >>> >>> The hypothetical student, still a mule, would drift around for a while. >> He would get another kind of education quite as valuable as the one hed >> abandoned, in what used to be called the "school of hard knocks." Instead >> of wasting money and time as a high-status mule, he would now have to get a >> job as a low-status mule, maybe as a mechanic. Actually his real status >> would go up. He would be making a contribution for a change. Maybe thats >> what he would do for the rest of his life. Maybe hed found his level. But >> dont count on it. >>> >>> In time six months; five years, perhaps a change could easily begin to >> take place. He would become less and less satisfied with a kind of dumb, >> day-to-day shopwork. His creative intelligence, stifled by too much theory >> and too many grades in college, would now become re-awakened by the boredom >> of the shop. Thousands of hours of frustrating mechanical problems would >> have made him more interested in machine design. He would like to design >> machinery himself. He'd think he could do a better job. He would try >> modifying a few engines, meet with success, look for more success, but feel >> blocked because he didn't have the theoretical information, he'd now find a >> brand of theoretical information which he'd have a lot of respect for, >> namely, mechanical engineering. >>> >>> So he would come back to our degreeless and gradeless school, but with a >> difference. Hed no longer be a grade-motivated person. He'd be a >> knowledge-motivated person. He would need no external pushing to learn. His >> push would come from inside. He'd be a free man. He wouldn't need a lot of >> discipline to shape him up. In fact, if the instructors were slacking on >> the job he would be likely to shape them up by asking rude questions. He'd >> be there to learn something, would be paying to learn something and they'd >> better come up with it. >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html