Thanks, Horse! I musta missed it. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Horse <ho...@darkstar.uk.net> wrote: > Hi MOQ Folks > > The 'Letter to Paul Turner' from Robert Pirsig can be found at: > http://www.moq.org/forum/Pirsig/LetterFromRMPSept2003.html > > Hope that helps :) > > Horse > > > On 03/08/2016 05:16, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Nick, all, >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis <ngrif...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Nick: Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download. I >>> found >>> that I could put in a key word/phrase and the pdf document would cite >>> every >>> page where that word/phrase was to be found. This is a great way to be >>> able >>> to resource information...ah! technology. When it has Quality, it is a >>> good >>> thing :) >> >> Dan: >> Yes, the e-version of ZMM is a delight! >> >>> >>> >>> Mention has been made of Turner's Letter, Persig's reply letter >>> to >>> Turner, and a compilation of first year Lila Squad discussions titled >>> "Lila's Child" >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Question: Would anyone be kind enough to direct me to these >>> documents or would any one post them for new comers to access and learn >>> from. Thank you >> >> Dan: >> Paul Turner's letter was available (I thought) at www.robertpirsig.org >> but I can't seem to find it now. I don't seem to see it on moq.org >> either. I do have a copy in my files I can forward to you. As far as >> Lila's Child, it is available through Amazon. Or if you say pretty >> please I can send you an e-copy. :-) >> >>> >>> >>> Nick: Finally, Patterns of Value has been discussed here recently. >>> It >>> has been said that there is a hierarchy of patterns and that the higher >>> pattern of value has precedent over lower patterns: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Chapter 13 of LILA. >>>> "Just as it is more moral for a >>> >>> doctor to kill a germ than a patient, so it is more moral for an idea to >>> >>> kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea." >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Question: Did Pirsig really say this? >> >> Dan: >> Yes. >> >> >>> This cannot be right. Much >>> more towards MOQ is, I believe: >>> >>> >>> >>>> "This observation is impossible in a substance-dominated metaphysics >>>> where >>> >>> everything has to be an extension of matter. But now atoms and molecules >>> are >>> just one of four levels of static patterns of quality and there is no >>> intellectual requirement that any level dominate the other three." >>> [Robert >>> Pirsig] >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick: Perhaps, I have taken the germ metaphor out of context and >>> Pirsig does not put forward the concept that an idea killing a society is >>> more moral than a society killing an idea. >> >> Dan: >> Yes, he does put forward that concept in Lila. Ideas are at a higher >> level of evolution than social patterns. >> >>> Also, I suppose that Pirsig can only give us a map to Quality. >>> The >>> ideas of MOQ are just the map and that we are "finally and completely >>> trapped into making quality judgments for" ourselves to climb the >>> mountains >>> and traverse the territory. Thank you: Dan. >> >> Dan: >> You are welcome. >> >>> To conclude, I send my greetings to John and Tuukka. Tuukka, >>> hang in >>> there. I wish you well and right along with you, I, too, am seeking how >>> to >>> reach for greater Quality. >>> >>> Being isolated can lead to quality because it allows one to >>> think >>> more deeply. Being isolated can lead to negative quality because, I >>> believe, >>> it is hard-wired into our biology to be with other people. >> >> Dan: >> I tend to be pretty isolated. If not for that, I'd get very little >> accomplished so far as writing goes. That, and I don't seem to play >> well with others. Too, the only time I feel alone is when I am in a >> room full of people. >> >>> Further, seemingly through the ages, we have come to value that >>> having "purpose" in our lives moves us closer to quality. Dan seems to >>> find >>> this in his writing. >> >> Dan: >> I don't know that I'd call my writing a purpose. It is more an addiction. >> >>> I am still working on finding my purpose. I know what >>> it is "not" though, just as we know what is an essay that lacks quality >>> :) >>> Pirsig gave us the guideline that we can know what Quality is. Charlie >>> Munger, a popular philosopher-business man of today, urges us to always >>> "invert". That is: always turn what you are thinking about to its' >>> opposite, >>> to its' upside-downness. Then take a look at that possibility. That might >>> be >>> an addendum guideline to seeking quality, the realization that knowing >>> what >>> is "not" bringing us towards quality also can help. Here is to finding >>> more >>> Quality and purpose. >> >> Dan: >> I see Charlie Munger is an associate of Warren Buffett. His partner, >> in fact, at least according to Buffett. Which isn't in itself a bad >> thing, but I remember being troubled by some of Buffett's investment >> advice concerning tobacco company stocks and how they were his >> preferred vehicle for profit in that tobacco companies manufactured a >> highly addictive product. That bothers me, more than a little, really. >> So his, Munger's, philosophy of ethical business practice is (to me) >> suspect, at least by association. On the other hand, he is a >> billionaire so I suppose he must be a really sharp guy. >> >> Thank you, >> Dan >> >> http://www.danglover.com >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > -- > > > "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments > that take our breath away." > — Bob Moorehead > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html
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