paciderm .. you are lost :-( how sad....
but thats ok... you just keep doing whatever you are trying to do ... dont
you worry about a thing :-) For you to 'get the idea' is too hard, and too
threatening, after all if you 'get the idea' then your search for identity
is over! ... but.. but .. that cannot happen since it is your 'life' to
search... and search... and search... like trying to get out of a maze...
but being a paciderm you should remember the way in and so work backwards
... unless you dont want out ... :-) jeez paciderm you are the creator of
your own prison... hmmm... what are you hiding from?... why do you bury
yourself so deep?... you continuously re-interpret, mis-interpret as a sort
of avoidance technique ... well done too, you have a lot of experience at it
so whatever you are hiding from, running from, refusing to realise, must
have happened a while back ... perhaps you have forgotten and all we see are
'habits' that have lost connection with the original intent..?....the
problem is, paciderm, you become predictable, programmable, ....
We must do better paciderm ...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of elephant
> Sent: Friday, 30 March 2001 10:38
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: MD rogers metaphors
>
>
> I think your explanation enlightening, Chris.
>
> But what exactly does it illuminate, I wonder?
>
>
> CHRIS WROTE:
> Metaphor enables us to describe qualitative differences in a general
> 'sameness'.
>
> ELEPHANT WROTE:
> ....what does this mean....?
>
> CHRIS REPLIED:
> > (1) I wish to communicate something to you.
> > (2) I cannot communicate EXACTLY since to do that requires us
> to share the
> > same space 1-to-1, to meld; that way you would experience the
> SAME as what I
> > experience. This is a no-no in physics where fermions are
> involved (electrons
> > etc - Pauli exclusion principle).
>
> ELEPHANT:
> Hang on a mo. Is this the old guff about meanings being related 1-1 with
> experienced referents (objects for the subject), so that if I
> have different
> experiences from you I can't communicate exactly? If it is, I think you
> need to read some Wittgenstein. (That's the first time I've felt the need
> to recommend him to anyone, btw) Alternatively, read Pirsig, and inwardly
> digest the bit about reality being something continuous. DQ
> exists prior to
> intellectualisations, and personal perspective is the intellectualisation
> par excellence.
>
> CHRIS:
> > (3) I must use the next best thing, something we have in common
> - emotions and
> > to refine the communications we use - language. (4) Language
> (call it X) and
> > what I am trying to communicate (call it Y) form a relationship
> where Y is
> > described in terms of X.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> What this last sentence says, I think, is that language uses words. (Just
> for the benefit of innocent bystanders)
>
> CHRIS:
> > That is a metaphor; a word is the 'transferer' of the
> > meaning, the pattern of emotion I have experienced.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> You will have to do better than that. You can't say that every word is a
> metaphor just because it is a word. Perhaps all words are metaphors - I
> have argued against this but it is a possibility. But if it is the case,
> then the reason for all words being metaphors can't simply be
> 'because it's
> a word'. That's baby talk.
>
> CHRIS:
> > (5) The words are like stones dropped into a pool, a pool of
> emotion. The wave
> > patterns are the source of meaning, where we resonate, my pool
> with your pool.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> 'Resonate' for 'communicate' presummably. So we use words to commuicate,
> yes? It's certainly a profound an observation.
>
> CHRIS:
> > (6) Social background, education etc., add to this in that they serve as
> > filters to add distortions, exagerations to the message received.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> A well known phenomena. What's that got to do with metaphor?
>
> CHRIS:
> > (7) The more
> > common our backgrounds so the more reference points,
> differences, I can make
> > analogies to to establish sameness, that resonance.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> Oh, I see. But earlier you were saying that there can't be *any* common
> reference points, since this would involve a mind "meld". A trifle
> confusing?
>
> CHRIS:
> > (8) Language is the map we
> > use to interpret our feelings and transmit them other than by
> direct emotional
> > communications.
>
> ELEPHANT:
> I really don't see what's so indirect and unemotional about "I love you".
> Perhaps you can explain.
>
> CHRIS:
> > We have a feeling, look at the map to find the correct 'route'
> > to your pool of emotions and off we go. If the message is
> strong and clear it
> > will bypass your filters, otherwise you add filtering to decode
> the message...
>
> ELEPHANT:
> Yep - you really do need to read some Wittenstein, and you need it bad. I
> suppose you have one of those test cards from paint firms glued
> to the side
> of your head, and everytime you see a rose you glance askance to check it
> against the card and say "ah, Red!".
>
> Looking for that kind of *correspondance* between the map and the
> reality is
> the wrong idea entirely. A map is something you *interpret*.
>
>
>
> OK, an appraisal of developments.
>
> Before: one unfathomable sentence.
>
> After: a whole pile of words apparently about how languge and
> words connect
> ammounting to ...... .......... .................. .......................
> ... ...................... ..... ....... the claim that "I love you" is
> indirect and unemotional, the claim that we use words to
> commuicate, and the
> claim that words are metaphors because they are words.
>
> Are you pregnant with any more of this?
>
>
>
> Elephant
>
>
>
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