A P.S. to Peter
(I gave a too short answer before, and this is the long version).
....I still think the hetrogeneity you are describing attaches to what we
are conscious *of*...... that being how we distinguish between one
"consciousness" and another, when we are considering consciousness as a
process, such that my process is different from your process.
- But of course no, consciousness *isn't* a thing or a process, considered
as *conciousness itself*.
So Peter, since I am not thinking of conciousness as a thing or a process,
it is a mistake to accuse me of thinking that it is a *unitary* process or
thing.
It *is* unitary, but it *isn't* a process or a thing.
So in the example of a man slowly awaking from a dream, we have a
fluctuating process, but what we don't have is a fluctuating conciousness.
What's in *flux* here is what conscious *of* - DQ. And what's *changing* is
also what we are conscious *of* - SQ.
Or so it seems to me. If you differ, you will have to give quite an
elaborate picture of what consciousness is, in order to be able to tell us
what it is that is changing - if you think it's consciousness itself that is
altered in such circumstances.
On my picture there is nothing very elaborate that you can say about what
consciousness *is*, apart from the precision that is available about what it
most definitely *is not*. We should stop wanting there to be synthetic
truths about consciousness: consciousness is the arena of synthetic truths.
The 'receptacle'.
E
> From: "Peter Lennox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:14:02 +0100
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: MD comparitive conciousness/ - El
>
> No, I was just thinking about "conciousness" in a general way; it seems to
> me that it isn't one 'thing' or 'process', and isn't consistent in one
> person from one moment to the next, never mind from one person to the next.
> I was using sleep as an example, because, whilst it is popularly described
> as 'unconcious', it doesn't seem to be an 'all-or-nothing' state. Same with
> anaesthesia; experiments have shown physiological reaction to certain
> stimuli (person's own name, voice of loved one, etc), even psychological
> reaction, to the point of a certain degree of arousal - more 'partially
> concious than previously. I'm not sure of your objection to 'comparitive
> conciousness'; are you actually saying it is just one state, on or off? -
> are we talking about the same thing? -
> It's interesting that you draw the distinction between 'concious-ness' and
> concious-of; can one have conciousness by itself? -or must it always be a
> case of 'concious-of'?
> just musing - might be a bit off the beaten track,
> cheers
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "elephant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 05 April 2001 12:41
> Subject: Re: MD comparitive conciousness/ - El
>
>
>> I'm unconscious when I'm asleep.
>>
>> When I am dreaming I am just confused/watching a movie. I am not any less
>> conscious.
>>
>> You are thinking of the phrase "a higher level of consciousness" - this
>> pertains I think to what we are conscious *of*, ie whether dreams or
>> reality.
>>
>> Isn't that the case?
>>
>> El
>>
>>> From: "Peter Lennox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:48:45 +0100
>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: MD comparitive conciousness/ - El
>>>
>>> El-
>>> Are you saying that 'comparitive conciousness' is a strange idea?
> (below)
>>>
>>>
>>> "So, you can claim that there is such a thing as comparatively conscious
> (a
>>> phrase I'd compare to "comparatively pregnant"), but only if you can
> show
>>> that atoms are language users. Somewhat unlikely. But if atoms aren't
>>> language users and thus don't experience SQ there is absolutely no way
> you
>>> can compare the awareness of an atom to the awareness of a scientist to
> come
>>> out with your desired conclusion that a scientist is more aware than an
>>> atom."
>>>
>>> Are you as concious when asleep as when awake?
>>> cheers
>>> Peter Lennox
>>> Hardwick House
>>> tel: (0114) 2661509
>>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> or:- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Lennox
>>> Hardwick House
>>> tel: (0114) 2661509
>>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> or:- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>>> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>>> MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>>> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>> MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
