AreteLaugh and any other that is still interested,
So we disagree on some different items. What troubles me is that I think we both are
basing our argument on MoQ (most of the time) and end up with different answers. I
admit to believe in Utilarism (Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill), and mix this with
the MoQ. You seems to belive in Egoism (Adam Smith: Wealth of nations), and mix that
with MoQ. This leads to very different veiws on things. This troubles me, as the MoQ
is not supposed to be subjective, if I understand it correctly. Maybe it is just me,
being a utilarist looking into MoQ to see if there are any new ideas that works, but
not being able to totally step into the new paradigm. Or maybe there is something
fundamentally wrong I'm not getting the hold of.
So, to your e-mail:
Gerhard wrote:
> I think that is why we can agree based on MoQ, as I see economic activity as a social
> pattern of values. This have been discussed in depth earlier.
Arete wrote:
In Lila Pirsig states (Chapter 13 Paragraph 27 pg 163 Bantam HC 1991);
"Second, there were moral codes that established the supremacy of the social
order the biological life-conventional morals-proscriptions against drugs,
murder, adultery, theft and the like. Third, there were moral code that
established the supremacy of the intellectual order over the social
order-democracy, trial by jury, freedom of speech, freedom of the press."
Where would a "Freedom of Exchange" exchange fit in this paragraph? I see a
market as being very similar to the intellectual hierarchy/system of the
motorcycle discussed in ZMM. The real market isn't the trading floor but
the results of supply and demand which are driven by the intellectual values
of the individuals in the population.
Gerhards answer is still:
The marked is IMO a social value pattern. Freedom of exchange is an intellectual idea.
Socialism is another intellectual idea. I understand that a free marked is probably
more dynamic than a controlled marked, but I am of the opinion that this also reduces
the possibility of many other dynamic social patterns and many intellectual patterns.
Due to this, IMO the marked needs to be controlled so it don't destroy other values
(on an equal level and on higher levels).
Gerhard wrote:
> I'm sorry to hear that. As you understand, I do not think that libertarianism is the
> solution. I was of the opinion that the energy-crisis in California was a good proof
>of
> that, but I'm not to familiar with the problem.
AreteLaugh wrote:
Your willing to accept the California energy crisis as proof of the failure
of free market system but think that the collapse of Eastern Europe isn't
proof of the failure of Socialism? Hmmm... Is that Empiricism?
Gerhard:
I do not know enough about the energy crisis in California to blame it on anything,
and I was of the opinion that I stated this clearly in my e-mail. I maybe should have
stated "I've heard ..." instead of "I was of the opinion ..." to be even more
accurate.
I'm not very interested in why communist states failed, or why America is a popular
place to be amongst former communist state citizens. I rather would like to see what
the MoQ brings when it comes to evaluating these different theories, and I had the
impression that was also your intention. Based on this intention I asked you why you
did not prefer Anarchism to Libertarianism, as Anarchism have a basis on a Social
level as Libertarianism is based on a dog-eat-dog biological level, and both relying
on freedm to do whatever you want more or less.
Socialism, Social-democracy an other forms of "light" socialism is IMO superior to
Libertarianism from a MoQ view, due to the reasons I stated earlier in this e-mail. I
understand that the pure communism is too static in the social value patterns, and
maybe this even is the reason for the collapse of communism. Also - IMO the Eastern
European states did not practise communism or socialism.
AreteLaugh wrote:
Hmmm... Is that Empiricism?
Gerhard:
I was of the understanding that we belived in Expressionism :-)
Gerhard
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