Hi Squonk and Discussers.
You said:
> Quality relieved me of all that science stuff also.
> I came to realise that science is a creative activity; a quality
> activity — and high quality at that. But the static patterns a high
> quality creative activity generates is not the whole of reality is it?
> Not even a MOQ does that!
This your last post impressed me greatly and I must be careful not
to add any uncalled for "buts". The only remark here is that if a
"metaphysics" is what Pirsig defines it: the most basic template of
reality (and not of something obscure and farfetched) a switch from
subject/object metaphysics (SOM) to quality metaphysics* (QM) is
from one totality to another. But, admittedly, even within the QM -
especially within the QM - there is always a dynamic urge to work
its way around the last static latch.
*) I'm a bit tired of the MoQ acronym, so for a while QM.
> Now and then, i am attracted to the ever gushing fountain of quality
> we think of as scientific endeavour; there are some titillating things
> going on out there, and sometimes it can all be too irresistible? ;)
As said, I have come to perceive the 4th level as REASON itself
(subject/objectivism) and science - particle physics and cosmology
preferrably - its spearhead. Yet, the weirdness that the quantum
world displays and the strange theories that cosmology spawns to
cope with it, is adjusted to its s/o template. So, it won't be science
that brings evolution forward. But - admittedly - its "titillating"
findings can be used as arguments if one avoids making
weirdness a goal in itself.
> Now, this is my point:
> I thought about 5th level latching from the point of view of quality.
> I imagined what 5th level would be moving away from, and how 4th level
> would be manipulated and controlled; how 4th level would be the site
> of emergence for 5th level?
This is a great insight. What a 5th would be moving away from
would - IMO - be the subject/object division itself and this opens up
an enormous vista and is why I see the QM as leaving every theory
(even the weirdest) in the dust. How Intellect will be
manipulated/controlled? We needn't fear "Gestapo" - no, that's 3d
level business - I think you and I are examples: we have started to
regard Intellect the ultimate provider of truth. How the 4th level can
be the site of emergence for a 5th level is a good question and a
subtle point. Remember my opening remark about the totality of a
metaphysics? Intellect - along with all other levels - is a QM
product so a 5th level only make sense in its context. I have
thought a lot about this and think it makes sense, but let me return
to that in another post.
> And guess what?
> All that irresistible stuff that quality relieves us from is the site
> of emergence for 5th level! That high quality intellectual stuff?!?
Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> But lets get back to quality...
> Direct stimulation of the brain bypasses conventional sensory input. [
> Can you imagine Descartes with this! :-) ] The move would be pure
> quality; no one is going to wish to disintegrate ones individuality
> and integrity unless the perceived relationship between technology and
> self was of value? Once emergent 5th level had overcome our
> Frankenstein complex of leaping into the fearful unknown, 5th level
> will be off on its own path.
Is this for Stephen ...or? Anyway, it sounds like the "prodding of
brains" experiment that Prof. Penfield performed and Benjamin
Libet refined, in which he reached the famous "0,5 second delay"
result. Yes, this is really weird stuff and was a thread some time
back when Struan Hellier used it AGAINST the QM ...but then he
used everything against it.
Thanks for this input Squonk, it's the first time I've seen anyone
grab on to these most flimsy dynamic probings. I'll will be off-line
for a couple of weeks from now on, but keep thinking and posting.
Bo
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