Vicki Heller wrote: << Chairman Greenspan, in his testimony to Congress, just said that American students in the 4th grade are equivalent to their counterparts in other countries in science and math. By the time they reach 12th grade however, American students are at the bottom of the scale. He went on to say that "it is therefore not the students, but the schools that are failing."
In a message dated 9/19/2004 2:04:17 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Isn't it true that Germany and England, and most other European school children undergo a "culling" after about the sixth grade? Then some children are steered towards apprenticeship/vocational programs, others are steered towards general programs and only the top students after the sixth grade are allowed to go to the gymnasium (in Germany) where they prepare for University educations. >> One has to been careful when interpreting differences in test scores between countries because you may be comparing apples with oranges. US schools generally do not require students to take math and science courses beyond the tenth grade, and the math and science courses are watered down. And some of the math and science testing programs that have been used as a basis of comparison between US and European students are comparing a much broader part of the US student population than in Western Europe. (see "The Manufactured Crisis: Myths, Fraud, and the attack on America's public schools"). Conditions within public K-6 schools and program that affect academic achievement, such as funding, average levels of teacher expertise, and curriculum are far more equal in Europe and Japan than in US. European and Japanese schools generally have a more enriched curriculum in grades 4-6, more comparable to gifted and talented programs than general education programs in the US (This is due in part to the influence of Piaget's ideas of childhood intellectual development, which have been more rigidly followed in the US). The culling process begins prior to grade 6 in a large share of US schools (in Kindergarten and grade one in Minneapolis). And the general and vocational courses in Germany, England, France, etc. are not dumbed-down as much as the public schools attended by a large majority of students in the US. Part of the difference in European and American schools has to do with what Horace Mann (first head of the Massachusetts Board of Education) called Moral education, preparing students to accept their status and social roles with a minimum of friction. The school system also reflects, reinforces, and justifies the dominant ideology and class system. The people who own and control American's economic assets are reforming the schools in order to advance their interests, and not the interests of those on the lower rungs of the income ladder. As was noted in today's star Tribune, income distribution in the US is more unequal than in other 'developed' counties. The same can be said about access to the health care system and high quality schools. A change for the better in school policy, from the perspective of most people of color and poor whites in Minneapolis will therefore require a shift in power from the rich to the working class majority. And I don't see how that power can be properly organized and focused through the DFL party. -Doug Mann, King Field Write-in "Doug Mann" for school board on November 2, 2004 www.educationright.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
