Ray Marshall wrote: > I may be wrong about this, but I would like to raise > the following issue. Foreign high school graduates consistently > beat Minneapolis students (see how I neatly have brought > Mpls content to the question) on test scores. I searched long > and hard on this but have not been able to find some facts. > Isn't it true that Germany and England, and most other > European school children undergo a "culling" after about > the sixth grade? Then some children are steered towards > apprenticeship/vocational programs, others are steered > towards general programs and only the top students after > the sixth grade are allowed to go to the gymnasium (in > Germany) where they prepare for University educations. > When European test scores are looked at, are these policies > considered when their test scores with Minneapolis <gr> > high school test scores? > In other words, are apples being compared with apples? > Are we spending billions of dollars in a contest we never will > win, and wouldn't want to win if it required such culling?
The "culling" in Minneapolis would appear to be the dropout rate rather the vocational tracking used in European countries and therefore the comparison would seem appropriate. The assessment that you are referring to, TIMSS, does control for such differences (see http://nces.ed.gov/timss/faq.asp#comparable). Keep in mind that those "culled" in Minneapolis don't have the quality vocational programs available to them as European students, however there appears to be an unlimited supply of jail cells. I believe that it is valid to wonder why such technological powerhouses such as Bulgaria, Slovenia, Hungary, Canada, and Australia rank above the United States in educational achievement in Math and Science. "Despite large differences among countries in students' mathematics and science performance, the researchers said, TIMSS findings suggest diverse routes to educational success. Among some top-performing countries, students were grouped in large classes, spent little time on homework and were taught by relatively inexperienced teachers, yet still exhibited high levels of achievement." http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v5/N27/timss.html Notice that two of the most frequent excuses used for low student achievement in Minneapolis, large class sizes and inexperienced teachers, do not seem to be necessary factors. I think that there is a more interesting question: Why, when Minnesota students rank among best in the U.S. in math and science (still not a very impressive achievement), do Minneapolis students do so poorly? I believe that the answer is related to the reactions of List members who find any mention of an increasing emphasis on Math and Science to be a direct assault on the Arts. I also, although I'm not sure, believe that such attitudes are widely held in Minneapolis (which is why I brought this topic up on the List). How are MPS administrators and school board members going to improve the quality of Math and Science education when facing such irrational and strident opposition? Not to mention, everyone else's apathy and denial. Has the quality of math and science education been an issue that any of the school board candidates has raised? Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
