Lasconic wrote:
> But entering phonemes, setting the vibrato etc..., 80% of them will not
do it.
Yes, sorry if I gave the impression that people *want* to use phonetics. I
just wanted to make the point that *Sinsy* already supported a format that
mscore *could* use. So there's no need to reinvent the wheel here..
Chances are that if the program pronounces a word wrong, the user is much
more likely to try a more creative spelling.
That means that you'll need some sort of routine to guess the pronunciation
if the word can't be found in the dictionary, and you'll need to handle
incorrectly hyphenated words as well.
It also has to handle "interesting" spelling, even if it seems to break
basic rules (like having more than one vowel per syllable), or slurs where
a single vowel is spread out over several notes... which gets even more
interesting when that vowel is a diphthong.
Being able to do all that robustly and gracefully presents an interesting
challenge all by itself - without even getting into the complexity of
actual vocal synthesis.
-- David
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Lasconic <[email protected]> wrote:
> My impression is that MuseScore users are musicians, singer, choir
> directors and often not technologists or linguists. When we talk about a
> virtual singer, what they envision is "I create a SATB score, enter lyrics,
> eventually I set the language of the lyrics somewhere in the settings, and
> then I press play and the computer sings".
>
> If the result is good enough, it's good enough. If it can be made very
> good without more tweaking then it's even better. But entering phonemes,
> setting the vibrato etc..., 80% of them will not do it. I'm not saying we
> shouldn't have some of these possibilities for people who want to tweak
> things, I'm just saying that in most cases it will not be used.
> To say it differently, the goal is not to make Hatsune Miku videos and
> spend a lot of time tweaking the pronunciation and intonation of the voice.
> The goal is to get a better audio rendering for voice than the current Oohh
> and Aahh MIDI sound provided by our soundfont engine.
>
> To illustrate what I just said, I feel MuseScore UI for this function
> should be more like the virtual singer in PDF2Music or in Harmony Assistant
> than the virtual singer in Vocaloid.
>
> Hope it helps,
> lasconic
>
>
> 2016-03-23 9:27 GMT+04:00 David Cuny <[email protected]>:
>
>> syrma wrote:
>> > I think the same about the
>> > necessity to allow phonetics, though we will need opinions on whether
>> > this is even an acceptable possibility in MuseScore.
>>
>> Sinsy accepts phonetic input to override defaults by enclosing it in
>> square braces, and commas separating the phonemes, as in:
>>
>> *there will be an an[ae*,n]-swer[s,w,er] let[l,eh*] it[r,iy*] be*
>>
>> See: http://sinsy.sp.nitech.ac.jp/reference.pdf
>>
>> Mscore will allow lyrics typed in this format.
>>
>>
>> > I don't think it lacks priority, but it seems much more feasible
>> > to implement it over something already existent.
>>
>> This would be for the devs to answer, not me.
>>
>> But if the choice is between something that works now but might break in
>> the future (Sinsy) or something that doesn't work now, but might eventually
>> (virtually every other vocal synthesis program), I know which I'd vote for.
>> ;-)
>>
>> -- David
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 2:20 PM, syrma <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Tobias Platen wrote
>>> > On 03/22/2016 08:18 PM, David Cuny wrote:
>>> >> Sorry, I didn't mean to propose that. I just wanted to note that a
>>> >> fallback
>>> >> that allowed phonetic symbols would be necessary.
>>> >>
>>> >> As to the rest, my (unofficial) thought is that it currently takes
>>> quite
>>> >> a
>>> >> bit of manual intervention to get English working well with the UTAU
>>> >> toolchain, whether it uses VCV or CVVC. And each approach requires a
>>> >> different set of tools to connect the samples together. It seems to me
>>> >> that
>>> >> there's quite a bit of risk of not coming out with something usable at
>>> >> the
>>> >> end.
>>> >>
>>> >> -- David
>>>
>>> I understand and share your concerns. English is a real problem, starting
>>> from phonetics to the scarceness of samples. I think the same about the
>>> necessity to allow phonetics, though we will need opinions on whether
>>> this
>>> is even an acceptable possibility in MuseScore.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tobias Platen wrote
>>> > For European languages eSpeak is the best one, but that will require
>>> > much more work. eSpeak can convert text to phonetic symbols for many
>>> > languages.
>>>
>>> How many eSpeak phonemes are there approximatively in English? Although I
>>> have thought about the possibility to make program to try and convert
>>> every
>>> phoneme to its CVVC equivalent, I get the feeling that this is a bad
>>> idea.
>>> There is simply no real equivalent, and users who get almost natural
>>> results
>>> out of it have good tricks to do so (play with either a vowel or a
>>> consonant
>>> sounds according to the song's speed, to the rhythm, to the consonants
>>> that
>>> are pronounced near each other. To make it the closest to how a human
>>> would
>>> say it. The most natural sound isn't the most obvious, and my level in
>>> English is insufficient to do such a thing). Even if one would go for
>>> doing
>>> the most obvious algorithm (provided it is possible), how much time
>>> would it
>>> need?
>>>
>>> I know that English support is quite a priority, as it is one of the most
>>> used languages. But it seems too risky. Would a project where the English
>>> support is an optional deliverable be worthy? I don't think it lacks
>>> priority, but it seems much more feasible to implement it over something
>>> already existent.
>>>
>>> Your inputs on a better approach that would make English more straight
>>> forward are very much welcome!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://dev-list.musescore.org/GSOC-2016-Regarding-the-Virtual-Singer-project-idea-tp7579698p7579741.html
>>> Sent from the MuseScore Developer mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
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