Looking again at the transcription of "Back Up and Push" at
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
, I see that I indeed looked too hastily at it before composing my previous
message. What I mistook for a sharp in the key signature is actually an
accidental (and on D, not on F as the sharp would be in the key of G major).
So the transcription is indeed in the key of C, not G. Thanks to Joe Michaels
for reporting his conversation with John Burke and getting me to look again.
That said, the pair of notes I discussed in my previous message--corresponding
to "told me" in the "Rubber Dolly" song--still exhibit a melodic difference
between the two transcriptions I cited: "mi mi" in "Rubber Dolly" vs. a
descending "re la" (not "sol re" as I previously stated) in "Back Up and Push".
And unless I've erred about how what I'm hearing is supposed to line up with
the bar lines of the sheet music, it's also still true that where the
transcriptions I've cited have two notes (whether "mi mi" or "re la"), the
banjo rendition of "Rubber Dolly" that I cited has seven notes, though my ears
aren't well enough trained to say just what pitches they are. So the whole
situation still leaves me pondering the question of how much rhythmic and
melodic change a tune can take and still be "the same".
On a side topic, I may just be revealing my ignorance as a person of negligible
musical accomplishment, but I'm never sure quite what to make of it when
someone asserts that a tune "is in" such and such a key, instead of merely
saying that the tune is usually/traditionally played in that key, or that it's
usually played in that key in a particular community. I wonder how often those
key choices are just the result of historical circumstances, such as lots of
people learning a tune directly or indirectly from someone who happened to play
it in a particular key, and how often there are things about a tune that
genuinely make it easier to play or make it sound better in a particular key,
such as things about the fingerings you'd have to use or the notes that land on
open strings on particular instruments in particular tunings.
I did a little searching for notations of "Back Up and Push" and among those I
found, notations in C were indeed the most common. However I also found this
one in A
http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.mandozine.com/music/TOW/TOW-2007-abc.txt/0039
and these in D
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
(see third transcription on the page)
https://www.celticguitarmusic.com/tbot_backup.htm
(near middle of page)
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/bluegrass-songbook/000563.HTM
and this partial version in G
http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.thomasbending.co.uk/titleless/Anon031/0000
I also found some transcriptions that seemed to be for a very different tune
(perhaps the Ward Allen tune listed in tunearch.org as "Back Up and Push
(2)"?), but I'll consider those irrelevant for present purposes.
--Jim
> On Nov 2, 2019, at 11:49 AM, joe micheals <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Checking with John Burke an old time fiddler in Seattle he said Rubber Dolly
> is in the key of whoever sings it. Back up and Push is in C but the “B” part
> starts on the 4 chord (F). The same tune though...
>> On Oct 30, 2019, at 8:30 PM, jim saxe via Musicians
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to Jim McKinney, David Firestine, and John Beland for identifying
>> "Dusty Roads" as "My Love Is [/She's] but a Lassie-O [/Lassie Yet]," also
>> known by many other names (see
>>
>> https://tunearch.org/wiki/My_Love_is_but_a_Lassie_Yet_(1)
>>
>> ) including "Too Young to Marry," and not to be confused, by the way, with
>> "Take Me Back to Tulsa," also also known as "Too Young to Marry."
>>
>> Regarding "Rubber Dolly"/"Back Up And Push," the annotations at
>>
>> https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Rubber_Dolly_(1)
>>
>> mention the song lyrics
>>
>> My mama told me, If I'd be goody
>> That she would buy me, a rubber dolly
>> ...
>>
>> one version of which can be heard, for example, here:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPquvsacG5M
>>
>> Looking at the musical score on
>>
>> https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Rubber_Dolly_(1)
>>
>> I believe the words "told" and "me" in the song correspond the first two
>> notes of the first full measure: a quarter-note for "told" and a quarter
>> note tied to an eighth note for "me", both on C-sharp, or scale degree 3
>> (mi) in the key of A major. In the music for "Back Up and Push" at
>>
>> https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
>>
>> (notated as 2/2 instead of 4/4 and in the key of G instead of A),
[Correction: The cited transcription of Back Up and Push is in C, not G. --js]
>> I believe the corresponding notes are a half note on D (sol in G major)
[Correction: That should read
... (re in C major)
--js]
>> and a half note tied to a quarter note on A (re).
[Correction: ... on A (la). --js]
>> So those notes are rhythmically the same in (the cited transcription of)
>> "Rubber Dolly" as in (the cited transcription of) "Back Up and Push, but
>> melodically different: "mi mi" in RD vs. "sol re" in BUAP).
[Corrrection: That should read
... (... but melodically different: "mi mi" in RD vs. "re la"
[descending] in BUAP.)
--js]
>>
>> Listening to the rendition of "Rubber Dolly" at
>>
>> https://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=9791&SqlId=249698
>>
>> that I cited in my earlier message, I think that in the place where I've
>> just described transcriptions on tunearch as having two long notes, the
>> banjo player (Jack Hawes) on the record plays seven notes:
>>
>> told (ti-ka) me (ti-ka) ee
>>
>> And yet I can still detect (albeit with a little stretching) a resemblance
>> between that recording and some recordings I've found of "Back Up and Push."
>> But it does set me wondering just how much two musical performances can
>> differ from each other rhythmically and/or melodically and still be regarded
>> as renditions of the "same" tune.
>>
>> As I write this, I'm reminded of an occasion about 15 years ago when I was
>> sitting in a dining area with one of my aunts and she asked if I knew what
>> tune was playing on the P.A. system. I said I thought it was "Tea for Two"
>> but she said it sounded nothing like "Tea for Two". Years later
>> (unfortunately when my aunt was no longer living), I happened to hear this
>> on the radio
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDHCDz7S2g
>>
>> and the mystery was solved when the DJ announced the title.
>>
>> --Jim
>>
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>
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