This is getting kind of off-topic for this list ...

> Is the German government just as much a police state as the US? I'm not
> sure, but I suspect that -- in spite of their Orwellian ban on teaching
> the history of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s and other evidence -- they
> are not.

 I am German, and I have absolutely no idea what you are refering to by
 your statement. What ban? What "evidence"?

 On the other topic: it seems that all Western countries are moving towards
 police state, in the disguises of "safety", "security" "fight against crime
 and child porn" etc. While many republican constitutions are based on ideas
 that were developed (or put in writing) by philosophers a couple of hundred
 years ago (separation of powers, protect the individual from the State),
 a shift of paradigm seems to have taken place. Now it's the State who
 protects its subjects, even at the cost of civil liberties.

 Witness the ongoing discussions, legislative attempts and actual legislation
 (eg. RIP) about monitoring all kinds of electronic communications, or the
 introduction of a new mobile phone generation with with builtin GPS. The
 general public is complacent, the media don't pick up. Industry is only
 opposing these things if their means of making money are affected (i.e.
 rarely).  And all the piecemeal changes over the years taken together have
 way outclassed Orwell already. The US govt seems to be a driving force in
 these efforts, even on the international stage.

 Sorry for the outburst ...

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