Keith,

> I got it!  What you said about replacing one JOIN with another is what did
> the trick.  After a little trial and error (maybe a little more than a
> little) I got the results I needed.  Thanks for the help.  In case you're
> still curious I am modeling short track racing here in New York state.  I
> used NASCAR in the example below of the tables because I thought it might be
> a bit more familiar.  Thanks again.


Well done!

Sorry about the delay, but when the list went mad it was just too confusing to work 
out which msgs were 'real'
and which were re-mails so wholesale deletion was the order of the day. Thanks for 
sending the explanations. I
enjoy watching car racing/rallying from time-to-time, but am not a great fan. The info 
might have helped me get
my head around the problem, but you beat me to it and so you get the chequered flag!

There are several sites around offering tutorials on joins. A simple/trivial join is 
featured in just about
every 'first steps' tutorial, so its not worth visiting too many of those. Go for an 
intermediate or even an
advanced 'course'. The other source of such data is a decent SQL/MySQL book. Many have 
been recommended - check
the list archives.

It seems very school-bookish, but it is worth getting your head around some of the set 
theory behind this stuff,
eg do I only want the join when there is data on 'both sides', or where data is 
'missing' should the 'left' row
be included with a NULL where the right row data would otherwise fit? (says he bravely 
attempting to  repress an
attack of the shudders)

Originally joins in SQL were all done by adding multiple tables to the FROM clause and 
at least one (in)equality
to the WHERE clause (note the 'two' entries'). The more recent SQL 'standard' 
introduced specific JOIN clauses,
eg INNER JOIN, OUTER JOIN, and a few variants on each theme. Using this syntax the 
joins become much more
obvious/better documented. I (and others from 'the old school') learned the original 
methods, and still don't
seem to have firmly lodged the newer syntax in my tired brain. If you come across a 
good tutorial online, please
share it with me too...

Regards,
=dn



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