Hi,
this discussion is useless, object or procedure is not realy the question.
You need to know how to build a good programm, if you cannot create a good programm,
no matter what language.
The amount of realy bad java-programs (90% i have seen were realy bad) shows,
that it is maybe not a good idea, to make programming to easy :o) .
There are a lot of people, thinkink a complex task is better done with an oo-language.
My boss is this opinion and had already 2 memleaks in C++, he searched for one
6 weeks.
So the truth seems to be, that an oo-language (especially java) makes it easy to
programm complex tasks, but what comes out in the end is worth.
I prefer TCL because on my opinion it is the best of both worlds
( i never had a memleak except with a bad API written in C).
Complex tasks should be done from skilled programmers - thats all.
mfg
Klaus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Heikki Tuuri [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Februar 2004 09:30
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: C compared to C++/Java; Was: Re: InnoDB Hot Backup + MySQL
embedded?
Jochem,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Newsgroups: mailing.database.myodbc
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: InnoDB Hot Backup + MySQL embedded?
> Sasha Pachev wrote:
> > Heikki Tuuri wrote:
> >> C versus object-oriented lanuguages like C++/Java is a topic I have
> >> discussed a lot with programmers. I believe that traditional procedural
> >> approaches and languages, like C, are the best for 'systems
programming', by
> >> which I mean implementing anything with complex data structures and
lots of
> >> parallelism. A DBMS is a typical example of such a complex program.
>
> >> 3) A weakness of C compared to Java is memory management. In C you can
> >> easily write programs that leak memory or run over allocated buffers.
In
> >> practice, it has turned out to be relatively easy to keep these memory
> >> management bugs at a tolerable level in our C programs, so that a move
to a
> >> language with automatic memory management is not needed.
> >
> > In Java is it easy to write a program that wastes large amounts of
> > memory, which is worse than a leak. In C, you are full from the start,
> > and then you leak a drop at a time until you are empty. In Java , you
> > are empty from the start, and you have nothing to leak anyway even if
> > you could :-)
>
> http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/shah01java.html
here is a .pdf version of the paper:
http://gist.cs.berkeley.edu/~mashah/java-paper/paper.pdf
The authors used a 2 x Pentium III 667 MHz, Linux-2.2.16, Sun JDK 1.3, and
Java HotSpot Server JVM 1.3.0. to implement a 'data-flow' query processor.
Their conclusion is that the memory management and the garbage collection of
Java is inefficient. The graph that they present shows an up to 2.5-fold
performance degradation with the Java garbage collector, compared to their
own tailored memory management system.
I worked with Entity Systems Oy in the 1980s. We developed a Lisp
interpreter and a compiler, and a Prolog interpreter. At that time, the
inefficiency of the garbage collection in Lisp and Prolog was a serious
problem. I am not familiar with more modern garbage collection algorithms,
but the paper of Shah et al. suggests that there are still problems today.
In the 1980s, the research group of Mike Stonebraker initially started
implementing Postgres in a mixture of Lisp and C, but they later abandoned
Lisp.
> Jochem
Regards,
Heikki
> --
> I don't get it
> immigrants don't work
> and steal our jobs
> - Loesje
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