It's not really every department/peice of information that's hard-copy. It's just that some systems are either more complex, or they're part of a new business process that was just implemented by non-tech types. The wild thing is that many people here are more afraid of soft-copy than anything else, due to data-loss experiences in the past. I'm going to have to put a lot of effort in showing some the power and stability that is available.I'm with Joshua on this one. Any university that is still doing everything with hardcopy and that has few if any computer systems to store things at this point in time is scary. Fortunately, they appear to be getting at least a glimmer of the idea that they could do much better with a computer system of the kind that you envision.
I'm was thinking PHP because what I've heard about the learning curve, I was thinking it might take a while longer to get the hang of Java. How do you think the learning curves compare?As for the nature of your applications, Java servlets would be my first choice if I were in your shoes. (I'm a Java developer, not a PHP developer, so I'm biased ;-) Servlets would let all of your users access the programs via the web and eliminate a lot of the work involved in distributing a desktop application. I think you'd probably want to use CLOBs or BLOBs (or both) to store your data in the database. These can easily be stored in the database and then read again when needed via applications and/or servlets.
Wow, that was a lot, and I appreciate it! You're right, I didn't give a lot of detail where it was probably needed for a good response, but I'm new to this area and your response was very helpful. To be honest, I wasn't fully aware of the scope of this kind of project and you provided me with some of the questions that need to be asked. Could you possibly point me to a good project management/tech evaluation resource online where I might be reminded of the essential questions?It's impossible to estimate how long it would take you to do the necessary work. For one thing, you've been very vague in describing your own skills. You have also neglected to mention how many applications you're building, whether you will have help, how skilled your helpers are, what sort of testing has to be completed to satisfy your employers, how much of your time you'll be able to devote to this project every week - you do have other responsibilities, right? - and many other factors.
I've been working with database for 20+ years now and I know quite a bit about application development, database design, how to organize a project, testing, etc. etc. so I'm confident *I* could do the work you're describing by myself in relatively short order, depending on how much work you are actually trying to do. Whether *you* could do it in a reasonable amount of time is not clear to me. If you already know at least one major programming language, like Java or PHP (something that works with MySQL and lets you build serious web-based applications), fluently, you have a good start. If you know something about database design and application design, you have a real fighting chance. But if your programming knowledge is limited to being able to write a basic batch file and you have no idea how to do application or database design, you are either going to need to take a *lot* of time to teach this to yourself or you will have to spend a lot of money on courses to learn it more quickly - and that may not sit well with your employers because most employers are notoriously reluctant to spend money on education. If you don't have the time or patience to teach yourself what you need to know and if your employer won't pay for courses, you will likely be limited to small, simple things that make only small dents on the amount of hardcopy that you manage.
I don't want to sound negative because I think you've got a good attitude and the beginnings of a vision for how to really improve things in your department. I also see a lot of myself in you, especially in the desire to "make the world (or at least your department) a better place". But you should know that as soon as this project looks like it is going to cost any significant amount of time or money, The Powers That Be will kill it so fast it will make your head spin. At least that's been my experience. Everyone wants a free solution but very few are willing to spend money or time (and time IS money) unless they can see a very clear payback that improves their bottom line. The warm fuzzy feeling you get from having a new system is not something that the bean-counters will value since they can't put a dollar figure on it. They want to see real dollar savings, not just warm fuzzies.
Again, I really don't want to discourage you, just warn you not to get your hopes up too high. Frankly, I hope you go ahead and do it anyway, even at the risk of some disappointments. I think you will learn a lot of interesting things and get a real kick out of accomplishing the sorts of things you are describing.
Good luck and check in once in a while to tell us how you're doing with this idea.
Rhino
I'm obviously wet behind the ears in this arena and have a lot of learning to do in many areas... project management, evaluation, development, testing, etc...
Any information you can offer is priceless for me!
Thanks, Mike Caskey
Rhino wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike T. Caskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: Learning curve
Hi all!
I'm wondering if anyone can help me find out how much time/training is needed to accomplish my task using MySQL.
My background: I'm fresh to the world of MySQL and databases in general. I do have some fundamental knowledge in the area of programming and databases, but nothing too in-depth.
My story: I work for a University that is seemingly falling behind the technical times. My department is using MS Access as the primary software for handling data, but we're still mainly hard-copy for our records-management. Obviously, there are problems with keeping hard-copy for everything. I was buried in paperwork for a short while before I decided to create simple databases/forms using OpenOffice.org, since it was so easy. Someone in management noticed the consistency emerging from my office and inquired. When I told them about my databases, they decided everyone in the department could benefit from them and assigned the project of making this available to all.
I'm with Joshua on this one. Any university that is still doing everything with hardcopy and that has few if any computer systems to store things at this point in time is scary. Fortunately, they appear to be getting at least a glimmer of the idea that they could do much better with a computer system of the kind that you envision.
My problem: My databases are single-user systems for use in OpenOffice.org and would be difficult to roll them out to my entire team. I don't want to install OO.o on everyones computer and I don't want to learn MS Access as it is known for being a temporary solution. So I need something that can keep up with the times and can be rolled out easily (web interface?). I also need to be able to append scanned images to records (PDF or JPEG?). This is all pretty complex and I'm definitely not technically equipped to create this just yet.
You definitely need something a little more serious than single-user databases. Something like MySQL is a very good start. After all, you need to have a decent multi-user database, one that allows multiple people to use the same data at the same time.
As for the nature of your applications, Java servlets would be my first choice if I were in your shoes. (I'm a Java developer, not a PHP developer, so I'm biased ;-) Servlets would let all of your users access the programs via the web and eliminate a lot of the work involved in distributing a desktop application. I think you'd probably want to use CLOBs or BLOBs (or both) to store your data in the database. These can easily be stored in the database and then read again when needed via applications and/or servlets.
As I said, I think MySQL is a good choice of a database.MySQL?: I believe a good question would be whether or not MySQL would be a good solution for this. What do you think? Also, how long would it take me to learn the necessary information? Lastly, how long would it take to develop such a system?
It's impossible to estimate how long it would take you to do the necessary work. For one thing, you've been very vague in describing your own skills. You have also neglected to mention how many applications you're building, whether you will have help, how skilled your helpers are, what sort of testing has to be completed to satisfy your employers, how much of your time you'll be able to devote to this project every week - you do have other responsibilities, right? - and many other factors.
I've been working with database for 20+ years now and I know quite a bit about application development, database design, how to organize a project, testing, etc. etc. so I'm confident *I* could do the work you're describing by myself in relatively short order, depending on how much work you are actually trying to do. Whether *you* could do it in a reasonable amount of time is not clear to me. If you already know at least one major programming language, like Java or PHP (something that works with MySQL and lets you build serious web-based applications), fluently, you have a good start. If you know something about database design and application design, you have a real fighting chance. But if your programming knowledge is limited to being able to write a basic batch file and you have no idea how to do application or database design, you are either going to need to take a *lot* of time to teach this to yourself or you will have to spend a lot of money on courses to learn it more quickly - and that may not sit well with your employers because most employers are notoriously reluctant to spend money on education. If you don't have the time or patience to teach yourself what you need to know and if your employer won't pay for courses, you will likely be limited to small, simple things that make only small dents on the amount of hardcopy that you manage.
I don't want to sound negative because I think you've got a good attitude and the beginnings of a vision for how to really improve things in your department. I also see a lot of myself in you, especially in the desire to "make the world (or at least your department) a better place". But you should know that as soon as this project looks like it is going to cost any significant amount of time or money, The Powers That Be will kill it so fast it will make your head spin. At least that's been my experience. Everyone wants a free solution but very few are willing to spend money or time (and time IS money) unless they can see a very clear payback that improves their bottom line. The warm fuzzy feeling you get from having a new system is not something that the bean-counters will value since they can't put a dollar figure on it. They want to see real dollar savings, not just warm fuzzies.
Again, I really don't want to discourage you, just warn you not to get your hopes up too high. Frankly, I hope you go ahead and do it anyway, even at the risk of some disappointments. I think you will learn a lot of interesting things and get a real kick out of accomplishing the sorts of things you are describing.
Good luck and check in once in a while to tell us how you're doing with this idea.
Rhino
