> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > > Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone > complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200 > meg". Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had better > speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer service) for > years. > > >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across the > >street have no option but slow DSL. > > Where is this example? Or is this strictly hypothetical?
There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in silicon valley alone. > I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's what > most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds. The only one that was > close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't consider > that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there now. I > don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters, but there's > fiber there now. Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”. It’s literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642 people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.). Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi. I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information. I’m sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have actual data. The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban and sub-urban parts of America… 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments. 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, Not areas of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family dwellings. 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently and where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in order to boost sales prices. Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans underserved. Owen > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: > What is the point of these anecdotes? Surely anyone on this list with even a > passing knowledge of the broadband landscape in the United States knows how > hit or miss it can be. An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and > the houses across the street have no option but slow DSL. Houses could have > reliable high speed cable internet, but the office park across the field has > no such choice because the buildout cost is prohibitively high to get fiber, > etc. > > There are plenty of places with only one or two choices of provider too. Of > course, this is literally changing by the minute as new services are > continually being added and upgraded. > Brandon Svec > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: > OK the one example you provided has gigabit fiber though. > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 8:41 AM Tom Beecher <beec...@beecher.cc > <mailto:beec...@beecher.cc>> wrote: > Can you provide examples? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo&ab_channel=NANOG > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo&ab_channel=NANOG> > > Our good friend Jared could only get 1.5M DSL living just outside Ann Arbor, > MI, so he had to start his own CLEC. > > I have friends in significantly more rural areas than he lives in ( Niagara > and Orleans county NYS , between Niagara Falls and Rochester ) who have the > same 400Mb package from Spectrum that I do, living in the City of Niagara > Falls. > > This is not to say that rural America is a mecca of connectivity; there is a > long way to go all the way around regardless. But it is a direct example as > you asked for. > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: > >There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far worse > >off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”. > > Can you provide examples? > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:51 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: > > > > On Jun 2, 2021, at 02:10 , Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 6/2/21 11:04, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > >> I disagree… If it could be forced into a standardized format using a > >> standardized approach to data acquisition and reliable comparable results > >> across providers, it could be a very useful adjunct to real competition. > > > > If we can't even agree on what "minimum speed for U.S. broadband > > connections" actually means, fat chance having a "nutritional facts" at the > > back of the "Internet in a tea cup" dropped off at your door step. > > > > I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying that easily goes down the > > "what color should we use for the bike shed" territory, while people in > > rural America still have no or poor Internet access. > > > > Mark. > > ROFLMAO… > > People in Rural America seem to be doing just fine. Most of the ones I know > at least have GPON or better. > > Meanwhile, here in San Jose, a city that bills itself as “The Capital of > Silicon Valley”, the best I can get is Comcast (which does finally purport to > be Gig down), but rarely delivers that. > > Yes, anything involving the federal government will get the full bike shed > treatment no matter what we do. > > There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far worse > off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”. > > Owen >