Is your intent here the same as what is built by firewalls? If so, NAT is a 
solution, but it is not required to achieve the goal. I suspect that what 
you're looking for is a firewall, not a NAT.

You might read http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-cpe-simple-security
  "Recommended Simple Security Capabilities in Customer Premises Equipment
  for Providing Residential IPv6 Internet Service", James Woodyatt,
  24-Apr-10, <draft-ietf-v6ops-cpe-simple-security-11.txt>

which is a set of requirements we are developing in v6ops for stateful 
firewalls for IPv6 networks, which one would most likely implement in a CPE.


On Apr 30, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Chris Engel wrote:

> You WILL have Realms (I believe even very similar to those described in RFC 
> 2663) in IPv6.
> 
> 
> 1) I am convinced that there WILL be NAT in IPv6....very similar to the 
> flavors available in IPv4. It's an open question whether it will be defined 
> in an RFC but it will exist. Why? Because too many people like myself will 
> demand it of our vendors. With that kind of economic pressure, some vendor 
> somewhere will bite and you'll have NAT whether you like it or not. I just 
> got done telling our hosting company (which we spend several hundred grand on 
> annually) that we will require a NAT-like solution for IPv6 and if they don't 
> provide one and another hosting service does we will be looking to switch 
> vendors. How many customers like that do you think it will take before it 
> becomes worthwhile for some-one to invest in building NAT66 devices? The only 
> thing not having any RFC's for them will do is make it likely that there are 
> no standards, just a hodge-podge of vendor specific solutions.
> 
> 
> 2) Even without NAT, you will STILL have the concept of realms. There are 
> networks, that by design, have very limited or NO reachability to the general 
> internet. That's why ULA-R exists.
> In the absence of NAT, I'm sure a very common deployment scenario for 
> Enterprises will be to have 2 Network address architectures. Every device on 
> the private network will have a ULA address and then the devices which are 
> intended to have some external connectivity will also be assigned a PA 
> address. The routers/firewalls on the network boundary will be designed NOT 
> to route ULA traffic...either outgoing or incoming. That would be my 
> deployment scheme if I had to do IPv6 without NAT. Though frankly, the plans 
> right now are to avoid IPv6 entirely until there is some NAT solution. 
> Possibly looking at doing some sort of NAT46 gateway solution if necessary 
> and staying on IPv4 local.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm far from the only Network Manager that feels this way. I make purchasing 
> decisions for my enterprise and I've talked to guys in similar positions at 
> other enterprises that feel the same way about NAT that we do. The only 
> reason you aren't seeing vendors biting on this already is that IPv6 isn't 
> really on most enterprises radar screens yet. In essence there is no real 
> need or demand for IPv6 itself yet.
> 
> Right now IPv6 (for Enterprises at least) is just a huge unjustified cost 
> center...that people who are being pro-active may dabble a little bit with to 
> build up some experience for the time when their may be a real need to 
> support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christopher Engel
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
>> On Behalf Of Fred Baker
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:39 AM
>> To: Keith Moore
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [nat66] Terminology: Definition for
>> "IPv6 Realm"? - Email has different SMTP TO: and MIME TO:
>> fields in the email addresses
>> 
>> 
>> I would (did) argue that the issue isn't reachability...
>> 
>> On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:30 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>      I agree that the concept of ??? (reachability
>> boundaries?) needs a name.
>> 
>>      Keith
>> 
>> 
>>              Fine. The concept I described is relevant, even
>> if (as both Brian and I point out) it is not the same as the
>> one RFC 2663/3103 talk about. We'll use a different word so
>> you don't have to worry about it.
>> 
>> 
>>              On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:14 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                      Even if one accepts the need for v6-v6
>> NAT (I do not) that's still not a justification for IPv6
>> addressing realms.
>> 
>> 
>>                              Look at the "cc" line of this email.
>> 
>>                              On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:11 AM,
>> Keith Moore wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                      Why is there a need for
>> such a concept as "IPv6 realm"?
>> 
>>                                      It seems to me that if
>> we ever create IPv6 realms in the sense that realms exist in
>> IPv4 (i.e. if we make IPv6 addresses ambiguous), we've
>> irrevocably broken IPv6.
>> 
>>                                      And if we end up
>> creating a subtly different concept in IPv6 - something like
>> realms without the potential for address assignment conflicts
>> - it will be confusing to call such things realms.
>> 
>>                                      But I really think the
>> right thing to do is to make explicit that there is only one
>> "realm" for the entire IPv6 address space.
>> 
>>                                      Keith
>> 
>> 
>>                                      We got a definition for
>> "IPv4 realm", based on RFC 2663 (but also RFC 3103).
>>                                      Both RFC's are IPv4
>> oriented, not providing an explicit definition  for an "IPv6 realm".
>> 
>>                                      This question might be
>> related to NAT66, because the IPv4 realm concept is
>> originating from NAT44.
>> 
>>                                      Does anyone know a
>> correspondent definition/reference for IPv6 realm?
>> 
>>                                      If not, I'd like to
>> offer an initial proposal for discussion, - a common realm
>> term for IPv4 and IPv6:
>> 
>>                                      (IPv4 or IPv6 address)
>> realm: is defined as a set of addresses, which share all a
>> common prefix, that are mutually reachable (thus, within a
>> single IP routing domain).
>> 
>>                                      Note: "IPv6 realm"
>> definition based on the GLOBAL UNICAST ADDRESS format (ยง
>> 2.5.4/RFC 4291) because this is a hierarchical format using a
>> "global routing prefix", which is assigned to a "site" (i.e.
>> sth like a REALM).
>>                                      Comments would be appreciated,
>>                                      Albrecht
>>                                      _____
>>                                      RFC 2663 IP Network
>> Address Translator (NAT) Terminology and Considerations
>>                                      2.1. Address realm or realm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                         An address realm is
>> a network domain in which the network addresses
>>                                         are uniquely
>> assigned to entities such that datagrams can be routed
>>                                         to them. Routing
>> protocols used within the network domain are
>>                                         responsible for
>> finding routes to entities given their network
>>                                         addresses. Note that
>> this document is limited to describing NAT in
>>                                         IPv4 environment and
>> does not address the use of NAT in other types
>>                                         of environment.
>> (e.g. IPv6 environments)
>> 
>> 
>>                                      RFC 3103 Realm Specific
>> IP: Protocol Specification
>>                                      3.  Terminology
>>                                         Private Realm
>> 
>>                                            A routing realm
>> that uses private IP addresses from the ranges
>>                                            (10.0.0.0/8,
>> 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16) specified in
>>                                            [
>>                                      RFC1918
>>                                      ], or addresses that
>> are non-routable from the Internet.
>> 
>>                                         Public Realm
>> 
>>                                            A routing realm
>> with unique network addresses assigned by the
>>                                            Internet Assigned
>> Number Authority (IANA) or an equivalent address
>>                                            registry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>>                                      nat66 mailing list
>> 
>>                                      [email protected]
>> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nat66
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>>                                      nat66 mailing list
>>                                      [email protected]
>> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nat66
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                              http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>>                              nat66 mailing list
>>                              [email protected]
>> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nat66
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>              http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
>> 
>> 

http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF

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