> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rémi Després [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:20 AM
> To: Dan Wing
> Cc: 'james woodyatt'; 'HappyFunBall HappyFunBall'
> Subject: Re: [nat66] Incompatibility of all NAT66's with SHIM6 and SCTP
> 
> 
> Le 2 nov. 2010 à 18:26, Dan Wing a écrit :
> 
> > The ASCONF mechanism is not "proposed" -- it is in RFC5061 where it
> > says:
> 
> Right.
> I should have said the ::0 address handling in NATs themselves.

draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat puts the requiement on the SCTP client and server
to use "0" in ASCONF -- not on the NAT.

> In my understanding, this isn't in an RFC yet.
> (Please correct me if I am wrong again.)

Correct, draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat isn't an RFC.  It is currently stalled.

> >> It therefore remains true that NAT66 and SCTP are incompatible.
> >> Right?
> >
> > I disagree.
> 
> OK, thanks for answering.
> 
> I suppose you mean that they are compatible with SCTP:
> - in the multihoming case
> - without "The SCTP specific variant of NAT" of draft-ietf-behave-
> sctpnat-03 - sec. 6.

No, that isn't what I mean.

draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat is written with the idea of an N:1 NAT,
where multiple interior hosts are sharing one public IP address.
For that to work, the NAT has to support SCTP -- exactly like
today, that same N:1 NAT has to support TCP, UDP, and ICMP for
those protocols to successfully be NATted to a single public IP
address.

The way a 1:1 NAT handles TCP, UDP, ICMP, (and SCTP) is different 
from how an N:1 NAT handles those same protocols.  

Perhaps I shouldn't have referenced draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat in this 
thread, because parts of draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat apply only to a 
N:1 N NAT and parts of it apply to a 1:1 NAT (such as NAT66 defined by
draft-mrw-nat66).  But draft-ietf-behave-sctpnat is the only document
we have, today, that describes how SCTP is supposed to traverse
an N:1 NAT.

> (Otherwise, this wouldn't be full compatibility, the only meaningful
> one if there is no caveat.)
> 
> I will look more deeply at what the ASCONF does with ::0 addresses if
> there are several CPEs and no specific function in NATs.

Just like back in the day of IPsec, a single device behind a non-SCTP-
aware N:1 NAT could work fine, reference 
https://fit.nokia.com/lars/papers/2010-imc-hgw-study.pdf.  Ignoring
ASCONF completely, multiple devices could fail.

Adding ASCONF to the SCTP client and server with a non-SCTP-aware NAT
in between, a compliant SCTP implementation should fail the verification
tag, rendering ASCONF unable to work.  

IMHO, it's not worthwhile to consider a multi-homed network with
two SCTP-unaware N:1 NATs.  It has little-to-no hope of working
correctly.  Considering a multi-homed network with a 1:1 NAT (such
as a NAT66) is interesting, though.

-d

> > ...
> >
> >> 2. I may have some questions about the example of draft-ietf-behave-
> >> sctpnat-03 page 17.
> >> If yes, I will pursue off list (the subject has no relationship with
> >> stateless NAT66)
> >
> > There has been scant review of SCTP NAT in BEHAVE, which I have found
> > distressing.  I look forward to your comments.
> 
> Scant review are dangerous indeed, especially when there isn't enough
> explanation to understand whether what is claimed is true or not.
> 
> Regards,
> RD
> 
> 



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