David Pye and Audry, I guess I'd never asked difficult questions before but I did get helpful answers, nothing as stunningly wrong. Tom
On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 7:48 PM Audrey <tntmod...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Previous to this ChatGPT exchange I had useful experiences with ChatGPT > but this has undermined all confidence it. > > I am glad you had this experience, you should not inherently trust the > output of any LLM, they are just as fallible as a human, and they word > their output confidently. I have asked it many highly niche questions like > that, and it is very rarely able to produce anything short of nonsense, it > doesn't seem to be able to say "I don't know". > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2024, 7:39 PM OrangeGlow <algonquinhighlands...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> This isn’t completely nixie related but of all people the folks on this >> list will most likely understand and appreciate what I have to say. It is >> about a recent exchange I had with ChatGPT3. [TL;DR: about history of >> technology] >> >> I’ve spent the last couple of years working on a couple of alarm clocks. >> One was going to use IV-9's but then Moses came up with his very nice IV-9 >> kit. I built it even though it had no alarm. >> >> The other alarm clock I wanted to design was based on the thought that >> the way technology developed there is no such thing as a consumer >> transistorized alarm clock. (So, that’s the first point: if I’m wrong >> about this please stop me now!) It takes too many parts to make one. The >> synchronous motor was well established and made into many inexpensive >> clocks. The only change to clocks in the time period I have focused on was >> a modernization of synchronous motor clocks to use flip numbers instead of >> a dial. The economics of making a transistorized alarm clock as a consumer >> product were so bad it was barely given a thought. >> >> And yet the following is an exchange I had with ChatGPT3 while >> researching alarm clocks: >> >> Me: Has there ever been a transistorized alarm clock (no integrated >> circuits)? If not why not? >> >> ChatGPT: Yes, transistorized alarm clocks without integrated circuits >> have existed. Transistor technology predates integrated circuits, and many >> electronic devices, including alarm clocks, transitioned from vacuum tubes >> to transistors before the widespread adoption of integrated circuits. >> >> Transistors were developed in the late 1940s, and by the 1950s, they >> began replacing vacuum tubes in various electronic applications due to >> their smaller size, lower power consumption, and increased reliability. >> Transistors were used in alarm clocks to replace the bulky and power-hungry >> vacuum tubes, making the clocks more compact and energy-efficient. >> >> The transition from transistors to integrated circuits happened later, in >> the 1960s and 1970s. Integrated circuits provided a further reduction in >> size and power consumption and allowed for more complex functionality >> within a single chip. However, during the era of transistorized alarm >> clocks, integrated circuits were not yet as prevalent or cost-effective as >> they later became. >> >> In summary, transistorized alarm clocks were common before the widespread >> adoption of integrated circuits, as transistors offered advantages over >> vacuum tubes. The progression from transistors to integrated circuits >> occurred as technology advanced, enabling more features and miniaturization >> in electronic devices. >> >> Me: Name one commercial transistorized alarm clock? >> >> ChatGPT: One example of a commercial transistorized alarm clock is the >> "Bulova Transistor Radio Alarm Clock" from the 1960s. Bulova, a well-known >> watch and clock manufacturer, produced this clock as part of their line of >> transistorized clocks during the transition from vacuum tubes to >> transistors. The use of transistors in such clocks during that era was a >> notable advancement in terms of size, power efficiency, and reliability >> compared to earlier technologies. >> >> Me: Was there a consumer vacuum tube clock ? >> >> ChatGPT: Yes, consumer vacuum tube clocks were indeed produced, >> especially in the mid-20th century. Before the widespread adoption of >> transistors and later integrated circuits, vacuum tubes were a common >> component in electronic devices, including clocks. These clocks often had >> the warm glow associated with vacuum tubes and were a part of the >> technology prevalent during that era. >> >> One example is the Telechron Model 8B03, which was a vacuum tube clock >> manufactured in the 1950s. Telechron, a well-known clock company, produced >> various models that incorporated vacuum tubes for timekeeping. These clocks >> were a representation of the technology available at the time, and they are >> now considered collector's items due to their vintage nature. >> >> While vacuum tubes were widely used in electronic devices, including >> radios and televisions, their use in clocks diminished with the advent of >> transistor technology, which offered advantages such as smaller size, lower >> power consumption, and improved reliability. >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++ >> >> Perhaps this is a problem with definitions, “Bulovas...line of >> transistorized clocks ” notwithstanding. But this looks very much like a >> series of logically erroneous inferences when it says “the Telechron 8B03 >> employed vacuum tubes.” It did not. But the cabinet looks like a ‘30's >> tube radio. Therefore it must have used tubes! Every electronic product >> progressed sequentially through vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated >> circuits. >> >> The only vacuum tube clock I’ve ever seen was made by David Forbes from >> HP counter modules. Yes, there are wonderful trigger clocks too; please >> see Graham Marsh. >> >> There have been a couple of kits for transistorized clocks, therefore >> they are commercial, but I’m still not aware of any alarm clocks. >> >> Previous to this ChatGPT exchange I had useful experiences with ChatGPT >> but this has undermined all confidence it. >> >> I’d really appreciate any comments you have about ChatGPT’s responses as >> well as any additional historical facts you might have, especially if I’ve >> got anything wrong. >> >> Also, I have to say, the Bulova transistor radio alarm clock is pretty >> sweet. I’ve wanted one for thirty years. >> >> My transistor alarm clock uses 6 NL-5441A’s, so this email is about >> nixies. >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "neonixie-l" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d8a23f15-489b-4502-a8f4-81ee50f44423n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d8a23f15-489b-4502-a8f4-81ee50f44423n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAPDJQ6Cq4B9D4vcsEe88F9Upt2CHen9t_7q6Tvn0fWUQ71nezA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAPDJQ6Cq4B9D4vcsEe88F9Upt2CHen9t_7q6Tvn0fWUQ71nezA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. 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