Hi Jack,
There have been some very good replies to this already, however
here's my $.02:
1) Remain calm. This is not as bad as it seems.
2) The information here:http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf
is very good, and IMHO, the best you will get.
3) The short answer is to treat every connection as though it were
balanced until the point were it actually gets unbalanced. This means
that you need only one type of cable (two conductor shielded). For
example, from the TTL jack in the patch bay, run a balanced line (Tip+,
Ring-, Sheild-Ground) to, say, a 1/4" mono jack, where you connect
Tip-Tip, Ring-Ground, and float the shield, as David Butler suggested.
4) For the record, the configuration is probably like that because it
has been very easy (and cheap) to do a balanced input with one op-amp
(or half of a dual one etc.) and a few external parts for many years.
Doing an balanced output requires a lot more parts, at the very least a
dual op-amp and more passive components, pcb board real estate etc. Many
pieces of very high end gear have un-balanced outputs, GML Eq's and
Compressors, for example.
5) And finally, I wish everyone in the whole audio industry would stop
equating "un-balanced" with other negatives in our language like
"unclean, unstable, unsafe, unreliable, unexceptional etc." I think "not
balanced" would be more accurate! (end of rant >:o )
Best,
Ike
On 2/17/2010 3:11 PM, Jack Stauss wrote:
I made a faux paus...all of my patch bays are BALANCED not unbalanced.
As far as I cant tell my Sends and Returns are UNBALANCED
My Line in's are Balanced it seems
My Direct Outs are Unbalanced.
Who the hell configured this console?!?!?! This unbalanced and
balanced in and out Seems ridiculous at best.
I do not have an integrated Patch Bay, just a 96 point TT that I
configured for the console and a 48 point TRS for outboard gear to
patch into the 96 point TT.
This is giving me a headache.
I can list my current outboard gear if you think that would help solve
the riddle.
Thanx,
Jack
Jack Dean Stauss
No Static Pro Audio Inc.
3083 N. California St.
Burbank, Ca. 91504
818-729-8554
818-729-8551 Fax
www.nostaticav.com <http://www.nostaticav.com>
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On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Frank Moscowitz wrote:
Jack,
In my experience balanced inputs are more important than balanced
outputs in a control room context. If you want to keep things
simple, forget the inserts. I wired mine out actually, so the signal
never leaves the module at that point. If I need outboard I go from
multitrack to outboard to line in. The line inputs on a series one
should be balanced - is there an integrated patchbay on yours? The
tricky thing I've seen regarding this is that the "line in" signal
hits the module first (balanced line receiver) then goes to the
integrated patch bay as an unbalanced signal (but it's called
multitrack or tape out) which normals to the "line in" which IS
unbalanced. I bypassed all of this as well so the signal doesn't
leave the module. It's a shorter path at least, and with a 30 year
old board it's that many fewer contacts to pass signal through.
The echo returns are balanced input, they shouldn't give you any trouble.
Your patchbays are unbalanced - are you sure? Perhaps they're just
wired that way?
Please double check the 1/4" input jacks on the back for line in, are
you sure they're not TRS?
You sometimes can get away with lifting the cold side of the balanced
signal or taking it to ground, but it really depends on what piece of
gear is on the other end. I tried to get away with it, but with a
patchbay and a variety of outboard there will be problems.
Sorry if this is convoluted, it's a complex topic when you're getting
a control room together.
I hope it helps - hollar back!
Frank
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Jack Stauss <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Here is the message that didn't go through:
I am nearing the completion of the rebuild of my Series one and
have now started to focus my attention on the patch bay(s) I will
be building to interface the console with all of my outboard
gear, 888's etc.
Now as many of you already know the 1/4 jacks on the back of the
console are all unbalanced, it's is a 2 point send/return system
with a line input and a direct output for each channel so there
are 4 jacks per channel plus all the busses, mains, echo sends
returns etc. Any way to get to the point,I have a lot of cabling
to my patch bays to do and I want to make sure it is all done
correctly the first time.
All of my patch bays are unbalanced, all of my 1/4 connectors on
the console are not, all of my outboard gear is balanced, all of
my 888's and midi interfaces are balanced...my head is becoming
extremely unbalanced at the thought of integrating all of this.
How exactly do I go about wiring these patch bays correctly so
they can interface with the console and other gear without any
issues?
Can I just insert the TRS connectors into an unbalanced 1/4 jack
and not have to worry about changing connectors and soldering the
common and ground together or is there some other thing I should
be doing?
Is it worth it for me to think about balancing the hundreds of
1/4 points on the console?
HELP?
Jack Dean Stauss
No Static Pro Audio Inc.
3083 N. California St.
Burbank, Ca. 91504
818-729-8554
818-729-8551 Fax
www.nostaticav.com <http://www.nostaticav.com>
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message
On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Jack Stauss wrote:
Test!
I sent an e-mail yesterday regarding unbalanced outputs and
balanced patchbays...have not seen it yet
Jack Dean Stauss
No Static Pro Audio Inc.
3083 N. California St.
Burbank, Ca. 91504
818-729-8554
818-729-8551 Fax
www.nostaticav.com <http://www.nostaticav.com>
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of
the original message
On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:12 PM, Sebago Sound wrote:
I actually talked to Mike over at Sytek - he said the
only access to
that module is from the bottom of the console, which
would require
tipping it up on end or on the rear, removing the legs
and then
removing the bottom panel. Sounds like I'd have plenty
of access once
I did that, but it's going to be pretty disruptive.
Seems like there
is some debate over the best way to access, either
through the rear or
bottom. If I can actually get in there enough to at
least clean the
switches, and possibly replace the socketed IC through
the rear
without having to tip the thing up on end, that would be
preferable.
I'll at least be able to take a closer look this evening.
Thanks so
far for the suggestions.
Bill
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Jim
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Greetings,
We've put up quite a few (but not all) of the IC and
other semi-conductor
data sheets on the Neotek Web Site. I'm pretty sure
the logic stuff from the
S3C is up, if not I have them here.
Regards, Jim
www.analogbros.com/neotek
<http://www.analogbros.com/neotek>
At 02:49 PM 2/15/2010, you wrote:
Hi
A TL0 74 is a lower noise, higher specification
version of an '84 and as
such either will work in the audio circuits but
the '74 is considerably
quieter.
There are of course far better chips available
now (20 odd years later!)
but many will need an adaptor as they are SMD
devices.
The 4013 is a dual 'flip flop' but the 4020 is a
counter divider chip and
are not at all similar. Google the data sheets to
see what they do.
Matt S
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
wrote:
Why is it that some module use a TL084 in the
op amp before the EQ and
some have TL074? Which is correct? All so I
have had some modules that had a
4013 chip and some used a 4020 chip. Which is
correct as there seems to be
no answer on my schematics. This is for input
modules.
Thanks,
Clark
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