Hi, all.
I thinkl that the conversation is getting a bit stuck in the weeds, a bit far
afield (I don't dare3 make the pun "further afield").
To me, Communication is changing. we are changing. our lives and practices are
changing. Listservs are an older form of media, but like the WELL and USENET
(which is still alive), there. is a lot of life in the medium.,
I just moderated Empyre,and I agree with Renate that she and time that they
should step down, as the topics were getting too "squidgy" for my tastes (age
of Aquarius?") - Sorry, that felt l like we were about to get into crystals
without talking about Abramovic. I also disagree with them shutting down the
list at the end of the year and not passing it on. It's a valuable resource. I
will let anything else go here.
As for fnetbehaviour, I think that there are a lot of people jumping the gun In
a whole Lotta places. Briefly, I think that in order to rejuvenate the list we
probably need more engagement, if that includes some video to bring us closer
together, I'm all for that. It's also easy to slide into consumer/lurker mode
where eI think that if you in a community, it's a responsibility to engage a
bit.
While Annie and I are old good friends, sometimes we disagree sharply on some
matters, we should not shut down the list.
This doesn't mean that things have to go themed or whatnot. Maybe some prompts,
maybe 2nd weeks is share your work week, a few things to pull us together.
Also, peperhaps if a few of us choose to push forward a bit. I think all these
things will revive us a bit - also to cross-link to firtherfield as a
discussion forum.
Lastlyu maynbe another type of sever... I don;t like discord.
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 12:14:56 -0400, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
<netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
I'm lost here; if I said that, it was an error. Empyre is 'about' culture and
many other things; it's topic oriented with guest moderators and participants.
- Alan
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 11:44 AM Ana Valdés <agora...@gmail.com> wrote:
I was a bit puzzled when Alan wrote that -empyre a list where many of us belong
and has participated for more than ten years is about politics. Did I misread
you Alan? That’s the difficulties inherent to have English as third language :)
I feel I sometimes misses nuances and shades.
Because for me, a former political prisoner, everything is political, the way
Furtherfield was created their work to put street art and digital creation in
the first place, etc. This list is for me a political list as -empyre. They are
managed differently but for me it’s a formal difference not a crucial one.
I should love Netbehaviour to renew itself from bottom up and find in our own
practice and work the tools for a change. But not a cosmetic change but a
change in a deep sense.
If not we risk to do what Burt Lancaster said in il Gatopardo, Lampedusas great
novel and a great movie:
“ We must change something to keep the things as they are”.
Cheers
Ana
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 06:25, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
<netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
Hi Ruth,
I think you misunderstand, or I do. For me it is a Commons, absolutely,
precisely because it's not steered by anyone. Steering is restrictive; it
becomes something else, you're asserting power, of course, as list owners.
It's been running fine for everyone I've talked to. I think when you say "feel
the shape of the community" that also implies perhaps that you want a different
sort of commons, where you alter that shape.
None of us want to let it go and as far as I can tell, none of us have felt we
couldn't post or threatened or that we needed guidance or anything else. There
are lists that have tried that - Poetics, which ultimately collapsed; the old
Fiction of Philosophy list which I ran and tried to structure, and so forth. I
can find that sort of thing even on Facebook.
Clearly we have different ideas of the Commons; mine is similar to occupy,
comes from bottom up; yours is top down. I never meant to imply by the way that
you should steer the list, just the opposite.
It has to do with power, and clearly you and Marc have that and are
dissatisfied with what others find valuable and enjoy, a community from the
bottom up, and one that's pretty self-regulating.
If you let it go, there's no ceremony, it's a disaster based on your decisions,
not the members of the list. If it's that you're tired of running it, because
of technical issues, I'm sure a small group of us could take that over; it's
not difficult.
Best, Alan, getting increasingly despondent over all of this. And now I have a
close relative who has cancer, I might drop out. Argh.
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:57 AM Ruth Catlow <ruthcat...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All!
Firstly, Alan I also love your posts -the pattern which I think of as an art
ping, and the content (when I watch, listen, read it) is a portal into your art
practise which I really enjoy and value.
I also think that Alan has a point in saying that Marc and I should provide a
steer as list owners. I have a few ideas that I will share at the weekend (it's
a hardcore project week this week for me).
But in the meantime keeping the conversation open is allowing us to see and
feel the shape of the community. It has been so useful to hear from Gretta,
Patrick, Paul, Ana, Annie, Johannes, Erik and all. More please! We also
appreciate various offers from people to contribute financially to the lists
upkeep.
We regard the value in this list as the strange undefined collective property
of everyone who has ever contributed. But as it is currently set up, it is not
a Commons. I personally, would like it if it were.
We can also consider Annie's suggestion of letting it go. But if that's the way
it goes (and this is not what I want) it should certainly not be done casually,
rather with the ceremony befitting the splendour of all that has ever occurred
here ; )
I do want to reassure you Alan, we will make no sudden moves! The whole point
of discussing this now is that it is not an emergency. We just need to work out
who "we" are and what "we" want.
Warmly
Ruth
On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:48 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
<netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I think we need some guidance; both Ruth and Marc seem unhappy with
Netbehaviour as it is.
I'm not sure myself whether to post or not.
Certainly calls could be put out to all the subscribers to indicate whether
they want to continue as such or not.
It's all about "as such or not" I think. Technically, Marc and Ruth are
list-owners, I believe. Ultimately they're responsible for the direction of the
list in the sense that any of us could be unsubscribed at the very least.
There are times I've had to unsub people and that's always painful, as would
be, at least for us, shutting the list down.
I have no idea what to do. I find the situation hugely depressing. Netbehaviour
may be derailing, certainly as a commons. And the longer this discussion is
drawn out, the worse
things will get, at least that's been my experience.
Meanwhile I keep writing/performing/worlding, whatever I do.
Best, whatever that is,
Alan
On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 5:57 PM Johannes Birringer
<johannes.birrin...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
Hello all. shapeshifters!
just watched Alan's video and also realized it may be the last one, as he may
not be posting his poetic writing and music here, anymore....
so I watch it as the last one Alan! thank you....
The conversations about how we might shift this "net- behavior" and become more
attuned again to what Ruth and Marc may have imagined -
"a place for free and open artistic experimentation with networked media, and
community building" is very intriguing. I just reread the many postings here,
and am stimulated and confused, loving all the responses, disagreeing with
some......as it should be. I try to be short; Ruth's parables of the forest
(and our poor presence as merely "ethnographic peculiarities") inspired me: >a
campfire in some unmanaged ancient woodland...>>......>>The woods around the
campfire are full of watchers and listeners (who knows who??)<<
...the analogies resonated with me, especially over the last 14 months in a
pandemic that made me leave academia and spend more time in the forest,
recording, performing, linking up, in the valley, with my village community,
inventing new rituals, listening to others and what they thought the "latende
Allmende" (latent commons, as Anna Tsing calls it in her book on mushrooms and
living in the ruins of capitalism) might be like. No one knew exactly, but we
talked, and took our masks off.... and walked along the river [see pic]
Well.. what is our "latende Allmende" going to be, with other (younger)
participants? do we know the age and gender of the members who post here? i
don't, and it never mattered, nor the the number of subscribers ("we don't
really know much about us") ? 643, 1625? 59?
is that true?
well, if the commons are evoked, and Furherfield's new director, and new
policies or strategic aims (inclusivity, intersectionality, link to local
neighborhood) are mentioned in the organization's remit, now what exactly do
you want us to do, in our shapeshifting? Have we not actually been
engaged....learning/contributing "about what it means to aim for a commons of
diverse cultures in connected physical to digital realms. It requires careful
planning, partnership building and a lot of production work"......
yes, it does. and we do.
with warm regards
Johannes Birringer
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Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab
+44 (0) 77370 02879
*I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender balanced.
**sending thanks in advance
Furtherfield disrupts and democratises art and technology through exhibitions,
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DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
research hub
for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
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Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane, London, EC1A
9ET.
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