Hi, just to make this clear once and for all : • I am not a bigot, fascist, alt-right troll or what not. • maybe i was a bit naiev in thinking that Alexander Bard was just a nuisance and someone with a rather unpleasant talk. Florian was so kind to notify me of his connections and rather suspect affiliations. I did not know that, nor that I read his stuff very precesily for I could smell from a distance the pahtological nature of it. • I did want to ‘silence’ anyone; nor that I wanted to sound or act in a patronizing or condescending way. I just wanted to ease Angela, in what struck me as a slightly paranoid reaction to a stupid rant (Alexander’s). I now can understand better the sensitivities that have burst out. • I recommend to know your real enemies, and fight them accordingly. I do not fall in that category, nor do I want to be pushed in such a position. Having a productive discussion on things that matter!
best, w > On 05 Nov 2018, at 01:57, Julia Röder <juv...@gmail.com> wrote: > > about that > > > dear angela, > > relax dear. > > it is ok. > > noone is recruiting anyone here. > > chill. > > best, > > w > > so, is that it? silence about this from the whole list except from angela? > do you all not say anything because you think this is trolling or this is > normal?? > > On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 23:29, <nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org>> wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: apropos of nothing (Angela Mitropoulos) > 2. Re: apropos of nothing (Florian Cramer) > 3. Re: Complexity and nostalgia (bronac ferran) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 11:12:54 +1100 > From: Angela Mitropoulos <angela.mitropou...@gmail.com > <mailto:angela.mitropou...@gmail.com>> > To: Nettime <nettim...@kein.org <mailto:nettim...@kein.org>> > Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing > Message-ID: > <CANOG54eNOM7MpzRoZkGj4zo46=nc4p+2yppmtn8hufbvvmw...@mail.gmail.com > <mailto:nc4p%2b2yppmtn8hufbvvmw...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It is a simple and straightforward question that I would like answered. It > makes no inferences about whether recruitment is effective, or even > deliberate rather than aesthetic. But I'm grateful for the evidence you've > furnished, dear, about the way in which women are told to calm down and > shut up, no matter the tone they take, so that those who think women and > black people are less than human and not entitled to take up space can keep > ranting on at length about how everyone other than white guys are less than > human. I mean, I'm grateful that you've illustrated the reason why I asked > this question in the first place. That said, I have no interest in debating > this further. > > I simply repeat my question, and would like it answered. Preferably in the > negative. But if in the affirmative, then I would like to suggest that > Nettime be shuttered because any benefit it had for creating a better world > has long past. The world doesn't need a longform version of Gab, or Gab for > that matter. > > Angela > > On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 10:29, Willem van Weelden <w.v.weel...@chello.nl > <mailto:w.v.weel...@chello.nl>> > wrote: > > > dear angela, > > relax dear. > > it is ok. > > noone is recruiting anyone here. > > chill. > > best, > > w > > > > > > > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos < > > angela.mitropou...@gmail.com <mailto:angela.mitropou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a > > platform from which to recruit? > > > > > > Angela > > > > > > > > > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: > > > nett...@kein.org <mailto:nett...@kein.org> > > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/f2cd6c22/attachment-0001.html > > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/f2cd6c22/attachment-0001.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:15:16 +0100 > From: Florian Cramer <flrnc...@gmail.com <mailto:flrnc...@gmail.com>> > Cc: Nettime <nettim...@kein.org <mailto:nettim...@kein.org>> > Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing > Message-ID: > <CADCyihQJfoRHqWhC_1jnOi5nh5fcp9ihNw=nmxq7qolivfv...@mail.gmail.com > <mailto:nmxq7qolivfv...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Alexander Bard is a typical example of a "Querfront" activist, and a member > of this right-wing party: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition> > > -F > > -- > blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561 > <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561> > <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561 > <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561>>* > bio: http://floriancramer.nl <http://floriancramer.nl/> > > > On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:30 AM Willem van Weelden <w.v.weel...@chello.nl > <mailto:w.v.weel...@chello.nl>> > wrote: > > > dear angela, > > relax dear. > > it is ok. > > noone is recruiting anyone here. > > chill. > > best, > > w > > > > > > > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos < > > angela.mitropou...@gmail.com <mailto:angela.mitropou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a > > platform from which to recruit? > > > > > > Angela > > > > > > > > > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: > > > nett...@kein.org <mailto:nett...@kein.org> > > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: > > nett...@kein.org <mailto:nett...@kein.org> > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/dbf7a410/attachment-0001.html > > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/dbf7a410/attachment-0001.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:49:52 +0000 > From: bronac ferran <bron...@gmail.com <mailto:bron...@gmail.com>> > To: a moderated mailing list for net criticism > <nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org>> > Subject: Re: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia > Message-ID: > <caoxxuwdnbndgledwscakjfpbjjx3zrwg-g2-y+kx3denvfb...@mail.gmail.com > <mailto:caoxxuwdnbndgledwscakjfpbjjx3zrwg-g2-y%2bkx3denvfb...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Thank you very much for doing this Nina. Frankly I was just 'bard stiff' > after reading such flat, leaden prose by someone attempting and failing to > antagonise whilst posing libidinously, apropos of celebrity > > https://twitter.com/Bardissimo/status/973224337976315907 > <https://twitter.com/Bardissimo/status/973224337976315907> > > Have filtered under BS. > > Brona? > > > On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 01:12, Nina Tempor?r <nina-t...@gmx.de > <mailto:nina-t...@gmx.de>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow, nettime?s very own James Damore moment - > > And hardly anyone calls him out. > > > > I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to > > intellectually-click-bait > > them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words ?Marx? > > and ?class?, > > And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his > > pseudo-philosophical > > White male ?ngst-driven project, > > Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way > > against academia, > > After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity > > and whining, after he > > Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had > > judged the welfare > > State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally > > ridiculously indulged himself > > In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms > > that he obviously enjoys > > To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with. > > > > While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question > > were really a > > Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises, > > I don?t understand > > why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for > > your interventions) did see > > The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to > > work with in that new class > > War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing > > manner, that a future > > Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started. > > > > Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather > > revealing how inclusive his > > New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be > > adopted as > > Conceptual lead? > > > > There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way > > that reveals absolute > > Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be ?safe? when stating such > > stuff in a place > > Like nettime mailing list. > > > > It?s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is > > key in this problematic: > > > > While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing > > into digital literacy > > Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any > > knowledge update in relation to > > Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific > > expertise (and commented > > With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of > > understood as the fundamental, > > Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which > > no thorough analysis of class > > Struggle can withstand. > > > > It was really interesting to read Dan?s report/ analysis of the beginning > > of ?identity politics? in the US > > (In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and > > his acknowledgement/ claim that it is his > > Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the > > next generation. > > I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really > > about the lack of history in a > > Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not > > be expression of a generally > > Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind > > of further waiting and gradual > > Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and > > now - even if this leads to > > A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly > > unfair even to antecedent > > activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough > > annoyed myself, but try to > > Understand.) > > > > I?m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard > > can blatantly display his near-hatred > > Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days > > after a shooting in a synagogue and > > Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards > > POC, regular attacks on homes for asylum > > Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US > > and similar harassments of academics > > Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the > > AfD in Germany as well, and ongoing > > And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women. > > Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days. > > > > Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak > > up for himself against a mainstream > > Opinion, otherwise he would know how much courage it takes and that it is > > no way just 'fighting for one?s > > Own good? but helps numerous others affected by that norm, and that > > keeping quiet and adapting, even at > > The high price of ongoing unfair treatment, is often the easier way. > > > > It seems to be necessary to point out that repeating just a mainstream > > opinion, once it is tumbling and > > Forced to open up to multi-perspective views, does n o t count as such. > > > > Best, N > > Ps: Alice and Ian, your mails arrived while I wrote this, thanks again > > > > > > Am 03.11.2018 um 18:30 schrieb Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldr...@gmail.com > > <mailto:bhcontinentaldr...@gmail.com> > > >: > > > > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:11 AM Felix Stalder <fe...@openflows.com > > <mailto:fe...@openflows.com>> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 6:07 AM Alexander Bard <bardiss...@gmail.com > > <mailto:bardiss...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: > > nett...@kein.org <mailto:nett...@kein.org> > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > > -- > Brona? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/53c7659f/attachment.html > > <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/53c7659f/attachment.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 134, Issue 17 > ****************************************** > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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