On Sunday 01 June 2003 10:02 pm, g graced me with: > and, in addition to what i wrote before, i say this; > > give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. > teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time. > > show a newbie bad habits and you teach him wrong for a life time.
It's human nature to take the path of least resistance, "g". That goes beyond "newbieism". Any bad habits taught here are usually by accident. Of course, if someone more knowledgable teaches me a bad or lazy way to solve a problem, I would consider it based on it's ability to get the results I want. I am results oriented, though I still want to know "why?". Most newbies are interested in solving a problem. You're being anal about procedures. We tolerate poorly worded questions and lack of thorough reading because we all have been there and understand why it happens. You would filter the less than perfect out of Linux. Sounds like the attitude of some ten years ago. Thankfully, those people are no longer hindering the progress of Linux with their primitive biases. > how many newbies use html? too damn many. Because they don't know it has harmful side-affects and there's been no one to tell them differently. Until now. Accept that and move on to help, instead of complaining. > how many newbies take time to read help files? very few. I really don't know that number, "g". I am sure to agree with you that not enough do. I will also ask you to realize that not all docs were designed for newbies to understand. I can attest to that and would argue with anyone that this is true. And if docs are read and not understood, isn't the point of this list to give the human element, which is often what is needed to break the ice to understanding? > how many newbies make there first question 'how do i send plain > text'? none Duh! That's so stupid. In the world that I live in, the ignorant are not omniprescient. Your standards are way too high for this list and its desired intention. When a newbie lists asks newbies to act like experts to learn how not to be newbies, they need to change the name of their list to 'apprenticing experts'. Today's GUI email clients are designed to make HTML mail automatic and transparent to the user. It wasn't always that way, as you well know. Where it use to be a challenge to find how to make it your default, now it can be a challenge to turn it off. Stop whipping people for not knowing what to do. Lighten up and give constructive criticism, or let it go and mumble your concerns to yourself. > how many experts use html to reply to an html newbie? > too damn many. Again, I found myself in this situation and was repremanded in a very respectful way. Once I was alerted, I investigated the problem and came up with a solution. Someone then told me later on that I should have a line length to keep my lines within readability. I didn't even realize what was happening. It wasn't obvious because I wasn't looking. I was asked to change this and I complied, even thanked the person for telling me. Would you have had me whipped and scourged instead? That's a great teaching method. > most every one who subscribes to this list is aware that there is a > request for subscribers to use 'text/plain'. I would like to see a ratio of numbers to understand what you mean by 'most'. Over fifty percent? Seventy-five? Ninety-nine-point-nine? How can you make such an assumption when you really can't know? Are you telling me that you have the ability to read the minds of lurkers and posters alike and see who does, who doesn't, and form such an opinion? And if you saw such facts posted through one of your Google searches, does that number specifically apply to this list, this forum, this time and place? You have a habit of assuming that everyone around you just knows what's right and wrong. You are right in your motive, I'll give you that. You are terribly wrong in your delivery of a viable solution. > there is no excuse for any user of aol, eudora, mozilla, kmail, > ximian, ole, or multitude of other email progs, to send text/html. > yet they do. There's no excuse for making a mistake, not knowing the answer to a problem, not being able to do something correctly, not being able to see the way to make something work. So? Welcome to what makes us Homo Sapiens. That's why our courts have judges, we have lawyers to plead our side of the story, why we give second chances and accept apologies. > why? because they really do not give a damn about anyone but them > selves. or so it seems, because they continue to send text/html. You must be psychic, "g". For you seem to be the only one I have met that can make such generalizations without proof and be indignant about no one taking you seriously. You have no proof or any numbers to base such a negative bias on. You are being negatively anal about a real issue that deserves attention. > crawl my butt, flame me, call me what ever you want to, but i still > contend that there is no reason for anyone on this list to send > text/html. There's no reason that anyone "should", but there are reasons why anyone "does". Your asking for an elite club to be formed instead of a forum for newbies to come and learn about a new way of computing. If that ever happens, I'm outta here. I dare say many would feel the same. Is that what you want? > so, raise hell with me about 'pitiful, poor newbies' who can not > help but send html. Just admit it to yourself, "g". You really like to be butt whipped. Why else would you come back to this list for seconds? <shaking my head in wonderment> > but, before you show how little you are aware of, check this site; > > http://www.expita.com/nomime.html So? Was I suppose to be super enlightened? Nothing there for me to learn. Yet I still made the same mistake as some newbies do just out of being unaware that my messages were coming through one way or another. I rely on my peers to set me straight, as I would them. That's what this list does. The word I think used is...."help". > and for those using eudora, i suggest you check iss sight to see > how unsafe eudora is, even when using text/plain. OK. Your submitting the URL is the first positive thing you have used in your argument. If you had skipped the other crap and just referred that to this along with respectful requests, I wouldn't be wasting my time on this post when I should be getting ready for my trip. You don't seem to understand that no one disagrees with your peeve, just your way of dealing with it. Instead of drawing supportive attention, you have supporters frowning at your blatant intolerance and prejudice of newbies (on a newbies list, can you believe it?) and everyone rolling their eyes to see where this is all going. At least I can thank you for the URL. Now, we *all* can refer it to those who didn't realize or didn't understand. > btw. anne, this is not in any way reflecting towards you. it is > just that i did not care to go thru all of these unnecessary post > and find one to use for reply. and no, i have never said that i was > not lazy. No comment. T
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