On Wednesday 19 September 2001 18:18, you wrote: > Do you think if someone or a group could provide a framework dedicated to > supporting this scenario it could help open-source developers and users in > terms of both time and money? Or do you think it wouldn't have a very > significant effect on these inherent hurdles? Do you think such a > framework is even feasible? > > Are most open-source developers self trained or do most have some sort of > educational background like a university or tech school? (Not that there > are probably too many universities or tech school that teach good software > engineering).... > > I wonder if a payed subscription to this type of framework would be > effective. Would people pay to subscribe to a automatic trouble shooting > repository. I'm guessing not... > Software engineering of the type required for a whole distro simply isn't taught. The production of such requires small-group dynamics and use of statisitcs and consensus-building tools so everyone can feel creative and a winner. Without that, you might as well try to herd cats. Civileme > > -----Original Message----- > > From: civileme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:05 AM > > > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mark Johnson; > >> '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > >> Subject: Re: Polite software (was RE: [newbie] Is this a joke?) > >> > >> This is not a gripe, just an observation, but it seems like > >> for most people > >> (including me) their linux system is usually in a constant state of > >> broken-ness, or in some way always marginally handicapped. > >> Why is that? I > >> realize that software is difficult to write just in general > >> and operating > >> systems and things like desktops are even more difficult, but > >> it appears > >> that there is a fundamental problem with how software deals > >> with exceptions. > > > > ============================================================ > > > > Well, the real story is that we don't spend enough money on > > software. If you > > want good error messages, it has to come from the programmer. > > The programmer > > needs time and training for this to happen. Right now, we > > are against a wall > > with people regularly working 14-hour days just to get a > > distro to you. Bugs > > cannot be solved because the model of inspection is proven > > not to work, by no > > less than Microsoft where every programmer is shadowed by a tester. > > > > Proper design is needed so the job gets done right the first > > time--then the > > level of bugfixes will be lower, the interaction of various pieces of > > software will be lesser, and the initial product will be much > > better. This > > requires training, and this training is _VERY_ expensive. Take 30 > > programmers out of action for 3 weeks to train them, make > > another three weeks > > by magic for them to plan out the activities of the distro, > > add another 5 > > weeks to get the text of error messages meaningful and right > > and translated > > into 40 odd languages, and pay for a couple of trainers > > (peanuts compared to > > the lost time expense) then somehow by magic keep up with the > > competition > > while you are missing half your between distro programmer time..... > > > > It is expensive to have good programmers. We have the best > > because many are > > here because this is free software, but still the amount of > > time required for > > this job is enormous and most work grueling hours. So it is > > expensive. > > > > So if enough people really want more informative error > > messages and better > > wizards and tools, it can be done. The obstacle is really cost. > > > > Civileme
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