Good pt :) Steve Bohlen [email protected] http://blog.unhandled-exceptions.com http://twitter.com/sbohlen
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Diego Mijelshon <[email protected]>wrote: > I did consider that possibility, but it would be just an annoyance, > considering you can't compile without the sln and csproj files. > > Diego > > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 08:59, Stephen Bohlen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> For even more fun, it could be done NOT as a comment, but just bare text, >> making the file completely uncompilable to anyone :) >> >> >> Steve Bohlen >> [email protected] >> http://blog.unhandled-exceptions.com >> http://twitter.com/sbohlen >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Diego Mijelshon >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> One more twist on the old repo: a comment line could be added at the top >>> of every file too. >>> Something along the lines of: >>> >>> //YOU ARE SEEING AN OUTDATED VERSION OF THIS FILE >>> //The new NHibernate repository can be found at >>> https://github.com/nhibernate/nhibernate-core >>> >>> Diego >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 08:30, Stephen Bohlen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> re: nhforge, there already are links ("Download NH3.2.0", "Getting >>>> Started", "Find answers in our forums", etc.) that handle most of the >>>> user-oriented actions so I think we're (perhaps) just talking about adding >>>> a >>>> "get the source" link or similar to the main section of the homepage there. >>>> If anyone wants to replace the text-based links with more obvious 'button >>>> graphics' or some-such, I'd certainly be in favor of that effort (to >>>> increase the prominence of these links for newcomers to nhforge). I can >>>> see >>>> the argument that displaying them as text links doesn't result in their >>>> being featured prominently enough to get a visitor's attention quickly. >>>> >>>> I would (perhaps) suggest also that we consider doing something about >>>> the "Downloads" menu item b/c its both full of mostly outdated content >>>> *and* >>>> misleading in that it makes one think that's where I'd go to download NH. >>>> Perhaps we change the menu item to "Community-posted downloads" or >>>> something...? it looks like the community has begun to post downloads here >>>> that are really available elsewhere (SF, etc.), probably because navigating >>>> SF to find the downloads is too annoying/difficult. >>>> >>>> Since the page pointed to by the "Downloads" menu ( >>>> http://nhforge.org/media/) seems to mostly contain bins for things like >>>> NH Spatial, NHV, Castle AR, FluentNH, etc., it seems clear to me that >>>> having >>>> a central source for authoritative links to the latest bins/packages for >>>> the >>>> broader NH 'universe' of related projects would be valuable. >>>> >>>> To accommodate this need, I would suggest that we consider changing the >>>> link on the homepage that reads "Download NH3.2.0" from linking directly to >>>> the NH GA bins to instead redirecting to some pre-authored page on nhforge >>>> that contains a more comprehensive collection of download links (latest NH >>>> GA, each of the latest NHContrib bin packages, FluentNH, uNHAddins, >>>> ConfORM, >>>> whatever) all organized and categorized/labeled to make it easy for someone >>>> to find whatever NH-related download they are seeking. To make it simple >>>> to >>>> permalink to this one page, I propose that this page url be just >>>> http://nhforge.org/downloads/ or something equally simple to >>>> remember/share with others. Then we need to just maintain the currency of >>>> the links on this one page as downloads are updated, etc. over time (the >>>> homepage need not change). >>>> >>>> This -- the redesign of elements of nhforge to increase clarity of >>>> navigation/cohesiveness of user experience -- is certainly a useful >>>> discussion, but IMO its somewhat off-topic for the more narrow pressing >>>> discussion of VCS choice. >>>> >>>> Getting back to that, re: the disposition of the SVN repo my vote would >>>> be to use the approach suggested earlier of adding the >>>> OBSOLETE_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_REPO.txt file (or sim.) message to every folder >>>> and >>>> deleting the .csproj, .sln, NANT, binary references, etc. content (e.g. >>>> pretty much everything but the .cs files) so that existing links retain >>>> their proper function but anyone checking out from the repo is left with an >>>> unbuildable tree. >>>> >>>> This will permit existing permalinks (well, as we're discussing, clearly >>>> NOT perma- at all <g>) to remain navigable/intact for blog posts, etc. >>>> while >>>> providing a non-ignorable flag-in-your-face about where the authoritative >>>> repo has been relocated. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Bohlen >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://blog.unhandled-exceptions.com >>>> http://twitter.com/sbohlen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Patrick Earl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Given that github doesn't have download metrics and NHForge doesn't >>>>> have bandwidth, I think it makes sense to leave the files on SF.net. >>>>> I also agree strongly about providing obvious download links on >>>>> nhforge.org. As far as I'm concerned, SF.net should be nearly >>>>> invisible, since it's hard to navigate, ugly, and not really providing >>>>> much in the way of services to us anyways. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the repository, it sounds like various people have linked to >>>>> the old repository. I think it would be worth considering simply >>>>> turning off the SVN service. There would be no question of the >>>>> authoritative source if the SVN repository was simply not present. >>>>> This would prevent stale links to old versions of the source. >>>>> Granted, if the links already specify the revision, then this isn't so >>>>> problematic. That said, is there really that much in the way of >>>>> linkage that's worth preserving? Losing a number of links is in my >>>>> mind less important than being unambiguous about the home. Many times >>>>> in the past I've been looking for the project repo and I have come >>>>> across a stale one first. On the same train of thought, we should >>>>> have big obvious links to our major web sections from the main page of >>>>> the nhforge site... downloads, reporting issues (not just jira, but a >>>>> page that tells HOW to do it), source control, and the rest of the >>>>> nhforge content. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick Earl >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Stephen Bohlen <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Yeah, thought not :) >>>>> > >>>>> > Given the constraints we have, I think the answer is probably "leave >>>>> the >>>>> > downloads where they are on SF" for now. Its already in place, works >>>>> fine, >>>>> > and its location is common knowledge among present adopters. >>>>> > >>>>> > We might want to more prominently feature the links on nhforge to the >>>>> > downloads on SF, but otherwise I'd probably argue for leaving all >>>>> else >>>>> > as-is. >>>>> > >>>>> > Choosing a different VCS can probably be done without really needing >>>>> to make >>>>> > changes to any other aspects (JIRA, downloads, whatever) of the >>>>> > infrastructure. >>>>> > >>>>> > There's probably a separate long-term conversation about centralizing >>>>> > everything under one roof/hoster/system/domain but its sounding to me >>>>> like >>>>> > this needs to be a different decision process not on the critical >>>>> path for >>>>> > our resolving the VCS issue amongst ourselves. >>>>> > >>>>> > Does this seem reasonable? >>>>> > >>>>> > -Steve B. >>>>> > ________________________________ >>>>> > From: John Davidson <[email protected]> >>>>> > Sender: [email protected] >>>>> > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:58:09 -0400 >>>>> > To: <[email protected]> >>>>> > ReplyTo: [email protected] >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nhibernate-development] VCS Vote >>>>> > NHForge definitely does not have the bandwidth capacity to manage the >>>>> > download volume. >>>>> > John Davidson >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Stephen Bohlen <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I fear that the issue with nhforge-hosted downloads is both >>>>> bandwidth and >>>>> >> metrics-capture (both of which SF does handle just fine for the most >>>>> part). >>>>> >> Is there an (easy) way to capture metrics from nhforge? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> People are used to going to SF for downloads and prominent links to >>>>> SF >>>>> >> download pages from nhforge for new adopters starting at nhforge >>>>> seem like >>>>> >> an ok compromise to me. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -Steve B. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ________________________________ >>>>> >> From: Julian Maughan <[email protected]> >>>>> >> Sender: [email protected] >>>>> >> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:18:25 +0800 >>>>> >> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> >> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nhibernate-development] VCS Vote >>>>> >> >>>>> >> +1 for consolidation then :) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> That tends to suggest to me that hosting downloads on SF would be a >>>>> bad >>>>> >> idea. If release downloads are to be regarded as a front-of-shop >>>>> concern >>>>> >> (which I think they should), can't we host releases on the NHForge >>>>> server? >>>>> >> The user then doesn't have to be redirected to an unrelated, >>>>> ad-sponsored >>>>> >> page on SF (at the back-of-shop, to continue the analogy) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 19/08/2011 6:56 AM, "Stephen Bohlen" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >> > Agreed. I'd posited early on that along w a move to *some* VCS >>>>> hosting >>>>> >> > provider we needed to consolidate the all else around NHForge so >>>>> that all >>>>> >> > existing deprecated resources could simply point to NHForge as a >>>>> hub from >>>>> >> > which links to all else (JIRA, downloads, whatever) could emanate. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > With JIRA remaining hosted by Atlassian, source somewhere (yet to >>>>> be >>>>> >> > decided), what other than downloads still needs a 'home' at this >>>>> point? >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > -Steve B. >>>>> >> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> > From: Julian Maughan <[email protected]> >>>>> >> > Sender: [email protected] >>>>> >> > Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 06:48:15 >>>>> >> > To: <[email protected]> >>>>> >> > Reply-To: [email protected] >>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nhibernate-development] VCS Vote >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > I just think if the project infrastructure is too fragmented, it >>>>> will >>>>> >> > become >>>>> >> > confusing. I think we can divide the infrastructure into two >>>>> categories: >>>>> >> > front-of-shop and back-of-shop. I think it is important there is >>>>> one >>>>> >> > place >>>>> >> > users go for downloads, doco, etc. (NHForge). The back-of-shop >>>>> stuff - >>>>> >> > eg >>>>> >> > (VCS, bug-tracker) - it doesn't matter so much. That is the reason >>>>> I >>>>> >> > raised >>>>> >> > the question about download hosting. >>>>> >> > On 19/08/2011 6:37 AM, "Stephen Bohlen" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >> Yeah, some time ago (early on in this last attempt at this) I >>>>> pointed >>>>> >> >> out >>>>> >> > that there are indeed two distinct categories in which we're >>>>> trying to >>>>> >> > make >>>>> >> > a decision: VCS specifically and project infrastructure more >>>>> broadly >>>>> >> > (issue >>>>> >> > tracking, announcements, etc). >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> Even if we go to github for VCS, I'm not sure this precludes our >>>>> >> >> retaining >>>>> >> > sourceforge + nhforge in the other roles (e.g., as we were already >>>>> >> > discussing earlier today re: central hub for downloads, etc ). >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> Couldn't a move to github for VCS leave all else exactly as-is >>>>> and be a >>>>> >> > (relatively) non-invasive change (wondering....)? >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> -Steve B. >>>>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> >> From: Julian Maughan <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >> Sender: [email protected] >>>>> >> >> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 06:24:45 >>>>> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >> Reply-To: [email protected] >>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nhibernate-development] VCS Vote >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> +1 >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I don't have a problem with git or using GitHub as a source code >>>>> host. >>>>> >> >> However, GitHub doesn't seem as good as Google Code or CodePlex >>>>> in >>>>> >> > offering >>>>> >> >> a project 'home'. Larger projects like NServiceBus, that use >>>>> GitHub for >>>>> >> >> their source, often have a strong alternative web presence with >>>>> their >>>>> >> >> website. If we use GitHub, I believe NHForge will need to be >>>>> improved >>>>> >> >> to >>>>> >> >> become a better project home. Do we have the resources for this >>>>> >> > improvement? >>>>> >> >> Maybe not. >>>>> >> >> On 19/08/2011 3:28 AM, "Richard Brown" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> Oops, sorry. I should have read more carefully. >>>>> >> >>> On 18 Aug 2011 20:25, "Fabio Maulo" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>> The meaning is: >>>>> >> >>>> -1 = Do not use the github repository, find another >>>>> alternative. >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Richard Brown >>>>> >> >>>> <[email protected] >>>>> >> >>>>wrote: >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> Is that -1 for github? Or -1 for this specific branch? >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> (just checking there isn't something wrong with the import I >>>>> wasn't >>>>> >> >> aware >>>>> >> >>>>> of.) >>>>> >> >>>>> On 18 Aug 2011 19:11, "Fabio Maulo" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> > -1 >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Patrick Earl < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> >> So we need to ensure there has been a clear decision on the >>>>> >> >>>>> >> source >>>>> >> >>>>> >> control matter. Committers should indicate one of the >>>>> following >>>>> >> >>>>> >> options. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> +1 = Use the github repository. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -1 = Do not use the github repository, find another >>>>> alternative. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Please respond on this thread with your vote. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Patrick Earl >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> > -- >>>>> >> >>>>> > Fabio Maulo >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> -- >>>>> >> >>>> Fabio Maulo >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
