I already posted the "how to test drive linux" instructions yesterday and
got called a nerd for my efforts ;)

-Kyle
-getting my geek on

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:37 PM, stanley/ Randolph <[email protected]>wrote:

> There are water injection systems for about any budget, including ones that
> tie into the car's CPU.  I made a wet air chamber that operates off a vacuum
> line and puts wet air into the intake manifold.  Only problem is, it
> doesn't do its peak volume at idle because it relies on vacuum from
> the manifold.  Hey - it was real cheap to make, and does help with
> consumption at idle and at lower steady throttle positions.
> Why do you
>      *THINK*
>        they aren't more widely used???  The oil barons would lose a great
> amount of their income!!!  I mean, water injection would double your
> mileage, keep the engine cleaner, and therefore last longer, and therefore
> you wouldn't be buying a new car as often.  And parts to help maintain it.
> I say all of the above together because those with more knowledge than I
> have proven that the oil barons also control the automotive industry ergo
> the consumption of the fuel they sell and also the pharmaceutical industry,
> hence the detection of petroleum in the pills you may take to "get well. "
> Actually, theallopath/pharmacoepea mantra is treat the symptons not the
> disease.
> Were I to have listened to doctors and surgeons, I would be without a
> prostate today...
> What did I use?  Lemon and apple juice.
> But that's because I caught it early.  IF it had already become malignant,
> there are other alternatives to the deadly chemotherapy the allopathic
> community uses - and then you still die; *but*, they have already
> transferred your *wealth* first.
> The fact is, you can probably get an injection system that performs well
> with your car'sinjection system and computer for about $350.  I would be
> able to get by with a much cheaper one on a Beetle.
> As for the Nighthawk, it has optimum efficiency displacement - about just
> under 188cc per cylinder.  It would perform  a little better with mid grade,
> or with Shell or some other premium fuel refiner's low to mid
> grade mentioned before.  There is a size beyond which any larger
> displacement is a waste, becasuse the engine can't burn all of the charge in
> the chamber.  Any smaller, and too much of the power it generates is lost in
> the mechanical conversion to motion within the engine.
> Maybe you can 'splain Linux to me some time and how to switch from MS
> Windows some time.
>
>
> *Stanley*
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Javier Garcia <[email protected]>
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:20:12 PM
>
> *Subject:* [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Gasoline, octane and oil
>
>
> Stanley,
>
> thank you for taking the time to explain all these things. With what you
> said and a couple of pages from wikipedia I think I understand much better
> now. Perhaps the source of my confusion was that I had the wrong idea about
> the compression ratio and the octane measure (actually, kyle clarify the
> octane for me).  But now, in the specific case of the Nighthawk 750,
> according to the specifications the CR is 9.3:1 (
> http://hondanighthawks.net/750.htm)..<http://hondanighthawks.net/750.htm%29..>..
> doesn't seems that low to be using regular gasoline. Taking your numbers as
> examples, Low  CR=7.9:1 and High CR=10.5:1 or more.
>
> If the water injectiong works that well, why I don't see everyone doing it?
> it is hard to implement?  It sounds like a really good idea.
> Javier.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Gene Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>  The water injection system sounds great.  How can I get it on my M/C
>> and/or car?
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* stanley/ Randolph <[email protected]>
>>  *To:* [email protected]
>>   *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:12 AM
>> *Subject:* [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Gasoline, octane and oil
>>
>>  The higher the compression ratio, the more likely you need higher octane
>> fuel.  You can *overcome* that neccessity with water injection, however,
>> which lowers the temprature and at the same time makes a more complete burn
>> because the fuel droplets surround the water droplets, being lighter; and
>> when they burn, the water absorbs some of the energy and becomes steam very
>> rapidly which makes the remaining  unburned fuel droplets even smaller, so
>> they burn faster and the burn completes before the flamewall gets to the top
>> of the piston and through it, theoreticallyTo understand more clearly,
>> picture a log.  It takes it a loong time to burn, like overnight, for
>> instance, in a Jotul stove.  Now picture some wood shavings.  They are not
>> only easier to ignite, they burn quite fast by comparison.
>> The gasoline gets "atomized" either by a carburetor or fuel injectors.
>> The finer the droplets, the better the burn.
>> Weber makes fine carbs that will cause the fuel to extract more power out
>> of the same engine because the fuel comes out in such a fine mist.
>> Sometimes it is so much more power that it is noticeable when you hit the
>> gas.  The engine will use less fuel, also, because more of what it gets,
>> gets burned before the exhaust valve begins to open.
>> Beetle engines came from the factory with about a 7.9:1 C/R.  They can use
>> 87 octane.
>> If I were to up that compression in my engine to 10.5 or more, I would
>> either have to use premium or add water injection.  I choose the latter
>> because I get more performance and nearly double my mileage from about 31 -
>> 32 to about 58, give or take; plus, the engine stays cleaner; and unless you
>> add an aftermarket filter on a Beetle, that's important, because they have
>> no filter and I used to change my oil every 1500 miles.  That wasn't so
>> expensive, because Beetles only use 3 qts. of oil.  Just a little more than
>> a Nighthawk..
>> Actually, what Kyle said below is essentially the same thing; I didn't
>> notice he wrote it after you asked the question (lol).
>> And Kyle - I know of a chap who replaced the pistons in his Ford Focus
>> with hi comp - 12.7s - and added water injection.  That's all he did, and it
>> increased his power (don't know how much, but a lot; no dyno) and his
>> mileage went from 25 mpg to 50.  This, on regular 87 gas.
>> Kinda like NOS without the risk of blowin' yer engine...
>>
>>
>> *Stanley*
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Javier Garcia <[email protected]>
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:31:00 AM
>> *Subject:* [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Gasoline, octane and oil
>>
>>
>> Stanley, I'm a little bit confused... in your first message it seems to me
>> you don't agree in using high octane gasoline... in the second, you talked
>> about engines damages due to the use of low octane gasoline... can clarify?
>> I'm not really an expert, so I get lost very easily.
>> Thanks, Javier.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I used to run into the same problem with my turbo cars. The higher the
>>> boost the higher the octane rating you needed since it effectively ups the
>>> compression. Most ppl understand octane meanings backwards. It actually
>>> means it's less likely to ignite, which is good if you're running high
>>> compression, or high boost. With higher gas prices I understand people
>>> wanting to put the cheap stuff in, but like Stanley says, newer cars will
>>> retard the timing when they detect knock, which means they burn more fuel
>>> anyways, so you didn't save as much money as you would have liked. One of
>>> the benefits of ethanol is a very high octane rating, so you could run
>>> really high compression or really high boost, and thus get more power,
>>> however this just isn't feasible for road cars now matter how much the corn
>>> lobby thinks it is. Long and short of it is, just put in what the
>>> manufacturer suggests, if the engine was designed for lower octane then put
>>> that in the tank. If you want to put "the good stuff" in your tank, then go
>>> to a name brand station, such as chevron/texaco, exxon/mobile, or shell and
>>> stay away from the discount dealers. This applies no matter what octane you
>>> decide to buy.
>>>
>>> -Kyle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:47 AM, stanley/ Randolph <[email protected]
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>   If you know the research about octane and flamewalls and compression
>>>> ratios, you would have a different attitude about that.  Low octane fuel
>>>> will demolish a high comp engine. I have taken apart Porsche engines they
>>>> were putting in Beetle vans, with the rings all cracked and melted into
>>>> their landings from using low octane for their compression ratio.  And this
>>>> despite the *decal by the gas tank* stating a minimum of 92 octane!!!
>>>> This engine was still running, but I have seen engines with holes in the
>>>> heads, the pistons, one which was ruined beyond repair with the hole 
>>>> outside
>>>> of the valve insert.  It is not good if you use low octane in a high comp
>>>> engine.  The flame wall is meeting the piston as it comes up, and when the
>>>> heated wall of fire hits the piston and you *hear* the knock, back off,
>>>> or you *will* ruin your engine.
>>>> The engines today have knock sensors sending data to the computer to
>>>> retard the timing when the flamewall gets too close to the piston crown.
>>>> When timing was only a mechanically actuated centrifugal advance, one
>>>> couldn't actually retard it, so the only thing one could do is back off the
>>>> gas, or go around with permanently retarded timing, which defeats the
>>>> purpose of higher compression: greater engine efficiency and/or more power.
>>>> An old wrench gave me an engine for taking it out of this van he bought
>>>> cheap and that's what I found when I took it apart.  Happy to say, though,
>>>> bottom end was excellent.  Nice thing about those engines -  is it was not
>>>> too expensive to replace those pistons and cylinders.  I had me a new 
>>>> engine
>>>> for the labor and $80.00 for new set of P&C and a valve job with new 
>>>> exhaust
>>>> valves. Gasket set was the second most expensive item: $29.00;  for regular
>>>> Beetle engines the gasket set was only $4.00, and a new set of P&C was less
>>>> than $40.00 for Brazilian Cima/Mahles or a Jap brand name escapes me), both
>>>> of which were close to German quality.
>>>> The only safe thing to do when rebuilding the Porsche engines is to
>>>> lower the C/R, because people think, it's just a VW (van/microbus).  It
>>>> doesn't really need premium gas.
>>>> Until, of course, it's usually too late...
>>>>
>>>> *Stanley*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Creative Residential Designs <[email protected]>
>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:37:45 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Gasoline, octane and oil
>>>>
>>>> Try telling that to my '69 GTO, Dick. It will NOT run on anything
>>>> else...period. It doesn't care what you or I think about premium gas, it
>>>> will ping and knock and carry on until I feed it the best gas there is.
>>>> (Texaco or Shell premium ONLY).
>>>> I just read a study on gas on the 'net as well. Interesting how abrasive
>>>> low-end fuels are to an engine. I'll try and locate it again. Apparently
>>>> it's one of those "you are what you eat" situations. HotrodMamma.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Dick MacInnes <[email protected]>
>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2009 9:10 PM
>>>> *Subject:* [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Gasoline, octane and oil
>>>>
>>>> The only place to get the proper service Manuel is Helm. Inc
>>>> And premium gasoline is a waste of money, I don't care what anyone has
>>>> told you.
>>>>
>>>> Dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

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