As someone who started using Node after said experimentation was over, I want to publically thank those who argued this sort of thing *in the past*, and am excited about what we (myself included) can build in and with Node. Those decisions were not easy, but they've been decided, and by incredibly smart people. Let's not short-change that.
As someone who receives every email sent to this list individually, I want my inbox back. TAGG belongs in Userland. So do promises. And Fibers. And Hook. And every other library that *builds beyond *core Node. You want to * change* Node? You have your trajectory: fork<https://github.com/joyent/node/fork> or get more formally involved <https://github.com/joyent/node/issues>. Put your fingers where your mouth is and let's go back to having fun. -Schoon On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Mikeal Rogers <mikeal.rog...@gmail.com>wrote: > This is where we disagree. I think that this is the worst thing we could > be doing and that it's actually damaging to the project. > > In order for Node to be successful it needs to evolve past each challenge > it faces. > > In the early days, everything was up for debate, and Node attracted a lot > of people doing fun experiments. We went back and forth about various > promise APIs and callbacks, then we moved on. We debated the module system > for a while, then we moved on. Luckily, we never took responsibility for > the language so we've avoid that debate entirely. > > Node is approaching the point where Node will not be about Node core > anymore. Node core is about to get very boring, API changes will not be > happening, it won't be a place to solve problems, and it's already not a > place for experimentation. The focus of the community will necessarily > shift to being not about Node and about what we build in it instead. > > If Node does not move past the same old debates, debates that the > community has already decided on (99% of modules are using standard > callback interface) it will suffer the same fate as Perl, Python or Ruby > that are still enamored with the same problems they were talking about 6 > years ago. > > This is important. Node should be a fun place and nobody is trying to say > "act professional". The problem is that this shit is decidedly *not fun* > for anyone but you and Jorge and maybe a few others and is a huge annoyance > and distraction for everyone who would like to move forward and have fun > talking about robots and websockets. Your discussion makes this list a > place for endless debates between camps that have no adoption and people > having fun playing devils advocate and not a place for people to talk about > real stuff they are building and problems they have. > > A conflict is inevitable. The kind of people attracted to experimentation > when a project is young will feel alienated when it moves past the > experimentation phase, and that is decidedly where node is at. > > -Mikeal > > > > > On Sep 17, 2012, at September 17, 20124:25 PM, Marco Rogers < > marco.rog...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I admit to willingly participating in this because I was off today and had > nothing better to do. :) > > I don't think Jorge or anyone else has been much out of line in this > thread. And it's really only ever a handful of people that perpetuate these > debates until they devolve. Myself included. I think they're a lot of fun, > but I do try to restrain myself from getting involved in all of them so as > not to permanently bring down the atmosphere of the list. > > I don't think it's bad to have people debate things on the list. Even if > it's the same topics sometimes. Not everyone has been around for 2+ plus > years. And not everyone can make it to conferences costing hundreds or even > thousands of dollars in order to debate in person. So to a lot of people, > this is where the community is. You guys have been increasingly quick to > shut down lively debate. And as a consequence, the list is pretty boring > these days. Take that however you like. > > When you guys stomp in like angry parents all the time, it starts to feel > way too "professional" around here. Just sayin. > > :Marco > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Mikeal Rogers <mikeal.rog...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Jorge, >> >> This is me asking you nicely to stop. You've succeeded in making some of >> the most level headed and accommodating people in the community scream. >> Great work, job well done. Time to stop now. >> >> If you do not stop I'lll consider your behavior outright trolling and ask >> that you be removed from the list. >> >> -Mikeal >> >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at September 17, 20123:08 PM, Jorge < >> jo...@jorgechamorro.com> wrote: >> >> > On 17/09/2012, at 12:04, Marco Rogers wrote: >> > >> >> Do you guys wonder why there is a collective groan when you show up? >> Especially considering how difficult it is for a group of geographically >> remote people to convey a collective groan in a written medium ;) >> > >> > >> > I only hear the usual waa waa of the usual cry babies. >> > >> > >> >> (...) >> >> >> >> PS: And find some way to get rid of the "eval" thing for chrissakes. >> If you want javascript people to take you seriously, show them you're >> serious about javascript. >> > >> > >> > JS programs are text. Guess what happens when you run them? >> eval(program); As simple as that! E.g., REPL: Read Eval Print Loop. >> > >> > I chose to use thread.eval(program) because eval() -as the threads- is >> evil. Will alias it as thread.evil(program) in the next release, just so >> it's absolutely clear. >> > >> > :-P >> > -- >> > Jorge. >> > >> > -- >> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> > Posting guidelines: >> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "nodejs" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en >> >> -- >> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines: >> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "nodejs" group. >> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en >> > > > > -- > Marco Rogers > marco.rog...@gmail.com | https://twitter.com/polotek > > Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond > to it. > - Lou Holtz > > -- > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en > > > -- > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en > -- Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ Posting guidelines: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nodejs" group. 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