Yes, I think we're agreed that success or failure reflects on the manager - but can the manager do anything to influence that success or failure? Is he carrying too much weight and responsibility without enough influence?
_____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 2:07 PM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] Whilst I do believe we have changed managers far to frequently in the past, I think Marcus is correct. The success or failure of any football team ultimately reflects on the manager, at Wolves MM recruits, directs coaching sessions, picks the team for match day, makes substitutions, etc, etc...he doesn't pay for the players and his budget is controlled by someone else, the only way he can be spared any blame for the performance of our team in my opinion. _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Chantry Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:59 To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] As usual, I disagree. I believe managers are responsible for building and controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club. A perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one Alex Ferguson. When he started Man Utd were very mediocre. He built a youth development system, he set a particular style of football that he wanted his players to follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the young players. This "Culture" has developed through the club over many years and has made the club what it is today. The money has come as a result of the attractive football and the success that it delivered, not the other way around. Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex, however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on the results of the club. If we play well, start getting results then people will want to pay to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money to be associated with the club. On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick. _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is almost entirely responsible for the success of the club. I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little to do with the success of the club. It's mostly down to money and luck. The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in the media. The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit. Fans build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic dismissal of the manager. The board can then get on with running the club without the pressure of fans to "so something". The fans have a snooze, or argue over who the next manager shoud be. See this <http://www.wbs.ac.uk/downloads/news/2009/10/what-is-the-impact-of-changing- football-manag.pdf> link for an overview of that thinking. Managers get sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because of the manager that results are poor. Subsequent managers fare no better which suggests that managers have little impact on the club. There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely money driven. The time when managers do count is when the relationship and respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case at Woles. There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above their weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck. The League One table now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that have sunk due to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the coin over the medium term. The first question is: If you rank all of the teams in the premier league by the quality of their first XI/squad, where would Wolves rank? I reckon we'd be bottom three anyway The second is: Could we have built a better side, without risking the future of the club? I suspect not. Doyle was willing to come, which is a surprise, but how many other players of that quality were willing to? Probably none. The final question then is: Would another manager do any better with the players we've got. I suspect not again. There might be a honeymoon period but that might not be enough to save us. 2009/11/11 Marcus Chantry <marcus.chan...@macquarie.com> No need to apologise Paul, I don't have much confidence in my own financial acumen or decision making logic so I don't expect you or anyone else to find much value from it. I think for point 1 it's more around having experience at a top level, whether that be La Liga, Serie A, Liga Sagres or even international management experience. Most sides would be very reluctant to appoint someone who hasn't got a good record at the top level. Whether it's right or wrong it makes it very hard to get a gig in the Premier League if your background is from lower leagues. point 2 - we knew what we were getting ourselves in for when we appointed Thick Mick. Has has a good track record of getting teams performing and even promoted at Championship level. He has proven (twice now) that he is not up to the task of managing at the top level and therefore should be spared the embarrassment of being relegated for a second time and let him return to the level of his natural abilities ie Championship or lower. which brings us to point 3 - For Balti pies and Led Zep concert tickets we should be able to take our pick from any manager on the planet. Assuming we can get Morgan to put together this attractive package before Christmas, we can shaft MM and get a decent manager in place - we will be Premier League Champions within 2 years. _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of pcr...@contechengineering.com Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:05 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] Sorry Marcus, Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial acumen / programming to make the conclusions you have drawn. To be clear, my comments on your points as follows: 1. Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the Premier league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league experience before they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you have the talent and the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier league experience to make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve Coppell and Alan Curbishley achieved promotion with their respective sides before acquiring Premier League management experience. As they deserved, just like MM has after achieving promotion. 2. Disagree, MM has earned his chance to manage the Wolves in the Prem. 3. Partly agree, if we were to appoint another Manager then yes, you would think the club would appoint someone with a consistent record of being successful in the Premier League. How to do this? Pay them a lot of money! Give them full control of player recruitment. Bonus scheme for level of success attained. Free tickets to Led Zep concerts and balti pies on match days! _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Chantry Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:30 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from the previous emails it seems: 1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful track record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get the opportunity to try? 2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship but a crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be our manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager. 3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to manager sh1te teams like Wolves? _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] Boo! Thick Mick out! 2009/11/11 <pcr...@contechengineering.com> Are you serious Lee? Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even though I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after successive promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously convinced he can't turn it around. Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but to my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a team, far from it!! Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league Manager but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you think he will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier? Paul Crowe Sales Manager - Asia Pacific ConTech (Sydney Office) PO Box 3517 Rhodes Waterside Rhodes NSW 2138 Tel: 02 97396636 Fax: 02 97396542 Mob: 0406009562 Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com Website: www.contechengineering.com <http://www.contechengineering.com/> _____ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified] Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions. Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Macquarie. </DIV<BR<BR --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
