Ok. When I hear “property rights” people using that phrase tend to argue it’s absolute.
Anyhow. Let’s not bury the group with political economic theory. How about starting an OS holy war? :p Thanks, Mathew From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:32 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: DigiNotar compromise Your example is an example of protecting the equal rights of all to their own selves and property. If the judgement of the fire marshal was correct, then he was correcting a clear and present danger to the lives and property of those likely to be affected by the fuel maker's mistakes. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 21:12, Mathew Shember <mathew.shem...@synopsys.com<mailto:mathew.shem...@synopsys.com>> wrote: Property rights should never be absolute. I had neighbor who decided he was going to make his own fuel. His “rights” were violated when the local authorities were notified and he was shut down by the fire marshal. The fire marshal mentioned his “gerry rigged” setup would have eventually exploded and would burned down a couple houses in the process. A little regulation is a good thing. From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com<mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com>] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 8:59 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: DigiNotar compromise Alrighty then. If you want us all to be more precise, I'll restate: Laws and regulations that inhibit the free exercise of individual's rights to their own property and right of contract (and by individuals I don't mean corporations), deny the ability of the participants in the marketplace (i.e., those who are buying and selling) to gain a correct signal in regard to supply and demand. If you can't sell what you have to me at a price and under conditions agreed to by both of us, we will not be making a transaction that satisfies our full mutual requirements. One of us, buyer or seller, will be come out behind on the transaction. Government regulations are by definition anti-competitive. This is basic economics. Kurt On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 19:53, Andrew S. Baker <asbz...@gmail.com<mailto:asbz...@gmail.com>> wrote: The *market* makes decisions? Where is this mythical market? The market is based on people, and if they can't be trusted to make good decisions without oversight when grouped together under the banner of government, they cannot be trusted to do so when grouped together under the banner of corporation or market. People, as we have oft observed on this very list, tend to make very bad decision -- more so in groups. *Theoretically* a free market system will operate better than many others under most circumstances, but in practice, a *little* bit of regulation is needed to make sure that the rules largely remain throughout the game the way they did at the beginning of the game. Most regulation, it might easily be observed, has come about when the leaders in a given market got too free with said market, to the detriment of other players in that market. But hey, don't let reality stop you from fawning over what could be... Oh, and I fully expect that in addition to "iPhone thread!" we're now going to have to endure months of "DigiNotar thread!" ASB http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker Harnessing the Advantages of Technology for the SMB market… On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Kurt Buff <kurt.b...@gmail.com<mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com>> wrote: And in practice. Outside the textbook, laws and regulation which don't respect property and contract rights robs the market of its ability to make decisions. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 13:28, Andrew S. Baker <asbz...@gmail.com<mailto:asbz...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>A free market doesn't guarantee good results, just better results than >>anything else. In theory. Outside of the textbook, the abundant use of free market often requires regulatory intervention... ASB http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker Harnessing the Advantages of Technology for the SMB market… On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Kurt Buff <kurt.b...@gmail.com<mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:28, Ben Scott <mailvor...@gmail.com<mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Ken Schaefer > <k...@adopenstatic.com<mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote: >>> There's no rule that says that has to happen. It would appear >>> that most people chose price over security, and so far that has >>> generally meant that those who value security more are left >>> without any really satisfying vendor. >> >> If there's a market, or even if someone thinks there's a market, plus a >> way to make it profitable, then you can bet someone will start something up. > > You ignore startup costs, network effects, and other barriers-to-entry. > > Start, sure. Succeed or see any real adoption? Not so certain. > The free market is not a panacea. A free market doesn't guarantee good results, just better results than anything else. Kurt ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com<mailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com<mailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com<mailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com<mailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
