I agree with all of that Jeff, just have two points to add: - While all regions of the cortex seem to have some motor-related output, I think it could be misleading to say that all regions have some "motor command" output. Guillery and Sherman (e.g. http://ironzog.com/nupic/Guillery_Sherman_2002a.pdf) talk about layer 5 cells having output that branches either to the spinal cord, tectum, or pons. The tectum (superior colliculus in primates) is involved in orienting the eyes and head toward attention-grabbing stimuli and the pons relays information to the cerebellum, which is involved in the smooth coordination and timing of movement (but is not necessary to produce movement). The only cortical areas that send out "motor commands" to the spinal cord (and from there to muscles) are the motor areas (with a small percentage also coming from the parietal cortex and cingulate cortex).
- While the cortex is in charge of recording and playing back patterns of movement, it's up to the basal ganglia (and its reinforcement learning mechanism) to determine which pattern to play back and when to play it back, based on the context of whatever else is active in the cortex. For this reason I would think that such a mechanism would be necessary for goal-directed movement. -Mike _____________ Michael Ferrier Department of Cognitive, Linguistic and Psychological Sciences, Brown University [email protected] On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Jeff Hawkins <[email protected]> wrote: > Two neuro-scientists, Ray Guillery and Murray Sherman have pointed out > that in every region of the neocortex they have looked, they find cells in > layer 5 that project to muscles, the spinal cord, or other behavior related > parts of the brain. For example in primary visual areas V1 and V2 there > are layer 5 cells that project to the Superior Colliculus which generates > saccades and other eye movements. I don’t believe they counted the basal > ganglia as a “motor” destination. Sherman and Guillery have proposed that > this is the normal state of affairs, that all areas of the cortex have a > motor output. This is a beautiful idea and certainly mostly true.**** > > ** ** > > Sherman and Guillery have written extensively about these layer 5 cells. > The axons from these cells split. One branch goes to the muscle or motor > area and the other half goes to the next region up in the hierarchy. Thus > all regions of the cortex have some motor output command, but that same > command is passed up the hierarchy. The next region thus knows what > behaviors are being generated. Layer 3 receives both sensory and motor > input.**** > > ** ** > > Layer 3 is the primary feed forward layer. It is what I think of when > thinking of the CLA. In the general case layer 3 is building a model of > sensory data plus motor commands. Layer 5 is similar to layer 3 in many > ways. I believe it is learning the same sequence of column activations and > thus the same sequences. The unfolding patterns of layer 5 cells then > associatively link to other motor areas and thus learn to control them. > It is a bit hard to describe without images.**** > > ** ** > > Conventional wisdom says that the basal ganglia does not create behavior > directly. It seems to be responsible for selecting between alternate motor > plans stored in the cortex.**** > > ** ** > > I believe we can build a simple system consisting of one CLA representing > layer 3 and another CLA representing layer 5. The Layer 5 CLA is driven by > layer 3 and associatively links to some pre-existing motor generator. The > system would learn to string together pre-existing behaviors in novel > ways. I don’t know if we would need a basal ganglia equivalent. There are > several unknowns but the basic idea seems sound. I have a talk that goes > into this idea. We hope to record it and make it available.**** > > Jeff**** > > ** ** > > *From:* nupic [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Michael > Ferrier > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:54 AM > > *To:* NuPIC general mailing list. > *Subject:* Re: [nupic-dev] Mentioned presentation on action with CLA?**** > > ** ** > > The impression that I get from the neuroscience literature is that there > are two basic types of learning in the brain. The first type could be > called "model learning", it is what the cortex specializes in, and it's > about learning hierarchical spatio-temporal models of input, from both > external sensors and from other brain areas, representing the outside > world, the body, and other internal states, and how they change over time. > The second type is reinforcement learning, which uses built-in "reward" and > "punishment" signals (such as pain or the taste of sugar) to learn what > cortical patterns should be activated within a particular context of the > activity of other cortical patterns, so as to maximize reward and minimize > punishment. In the brain, reinforcement learning takes place in the basal > ganglia, but uses input from many different areas of the cortex, and > affects the activation of patterns within prefrontal and motor cortex to > result in the control of attention, working memory and movement. **** > > ** ** > > For a more detailed discussion, see e.g. chapter 7 here: > http://grey.colorado.edu/mediawiki/sites/CompCogNeuro/images/8/89/ccnbook_01_09_2012.pdf > **** > > ** ** > > It's this dichotomy that I think the BECCA system is getting at, with > their distinction between a "feature creator" and a "reinforcement > learner". All cortical regions contribute in some way to motor output, if > only by providing contextual information to the basal ganglia or to other > subcortical structures involved in shaping motor output, such as the > cerebellum or superior colliculus. But the final output to the spinal cord > that actually produces movement comes mostly from the motor areas. **** > > ** ** > > CLA strikes me as being potentially a major advance in simulating the > cortex and its spatio-temporal "model learning", but I think the addition > of reinforcement learning will be necessary in order to approach the > problems of action selection, attention, working memory and cognition in a > brain-like way.**** > > ** ** > > -Mike **** > > > **** > > _____________ > Michael Ferrier > Department of Cognitive, Linguistic and Psychological Sciences, Brown > University > [email protected]**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Thompson, Jeff <[email protected]> > wrote:**** > > Hello SeH,**** > > **** > > While I appreciate your pointing out this open source project of which I > was not aware, it seems to go against my question. I started paying > attention to work on the CLA (again after many years) when I heard Jeff > Hawkins speaking as he does below that "There are no pure “sensory” regions > and no pure “motor” regions". It gave me hope that this work might avoid > the pitfall of the classic "input-processing-output" loop of classic AI, > which BECCA clearly seems to follow (see the attached diagram). **** > > **** > > We now know that there are just as many feedback connections going to back > down to the "input" regions, and that action is not so different from > perception (in that it uses similar machinery of prediction), and that > "input" is intimately tied to the actions active during the input (instead > of having "action" on the other side of world from "input", as in the BECCA > diagram). **** > > **** > > I'm hopeful to see a diagram soon of many CLA modules for action and > perception connected in a hierarchy which shows how action comes from > similar prediction machinery as perception and how to avoid the pitfall > of "input on one end, output on the other end."**** > > **** > > Thank you,**** > > - Jeff T**** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* nupic [[email protected]] on behalf of SeH [ > [email protected]] > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 6:26 PM > *To:* NuPIC general mailing list.; [email protected]**** > > > *Subject:* Re: [nupic-dev] Mentioned presentation on action with CLA?**** > > ** ** > > i imagined that something like OpenBECCA http://openbecca.org could be > integrated with NuPIC for a motor control system **** > > ** ** > > https://github.com/brohrer/becca<https://github.com/brohrer/becca/blob/master/doc/becca_0.4.5_users_guide.pdf> > **** > > > https://github.com/brohrer/becca/blob/master/doc/becca_0.4.5_users_guide.pdf > **** > > ** ** > > from the opposite direction: part of BECCA's perceptual components may be > enhanced (or replaced) with NuPIC**** > > ** ** > > https://github.com/brohrer/becca/blob/master/core/agent.py**** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Thompson, Jeff <[email protected]> > wrote:**** > > Thank you for the quick reply. I'm in Los Angeles, so I hope someone does > record your presentation at NASA.**** > > ** ** > > A similar question arose when I read "Thinking, predicting, and doing are > all part of the same unfolding of sequences moving down the cortical > hierarchy." (On Intelligence, p. 158.) I'm sure this is a FAQ, but do you > have some writings or presentations about how a CLA would receive feedback > signals coming down the hierarchy? **** > > ** ** > > Thank you,**** > > - Jeff**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From: *Jeff Hawkins <[email protected]> > *Reply-To: *"NuPIC general mailing list." <[email protected]> > *Date: *Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:35 AM > *To: *"'NuPIC general mailing list.'" <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [nupic-dev] Mentioned presentation on action with CLA?**** > > ** ** > > Jeff,**** > > I wrote this presentation a couple years ago for a workshop on sensory > motor integration. That workshop was held at the Santa Fe institute and I > don’t believe it was recorded. The genesis of the workshop was a paper > written by Murray Sherman and Raymond Guillery where they point out that > every region of the neocortex (as far as they have looked) has cells in > layer 5 that have a motor function. The big idea is that every region of > neocortex does sensory inference and generates behavior. There are no pure > “sensory” regions and no pure “motor” regions. It is one of those > beautiful results that make you slap your head and say “of course!”**** > > **** > > I have always envisioned the CLA as modeling a section layer 3 in a region > of the neocortex. Layer 3 is the primary input layer and is therefore > doing inference on the input to that cortical region. Layer 5 is driven by > layer 3 and has the cells that innervate muscles, or more often project to > some sub-cortical area that generates behavior. I see how two CLAs, one > for layer 3 and the other for layer 5 can work together to learn a sensory > motor model of the world where today’s CLA is purely sensory. There is a > lot I don’t understand but there is enough that I think we can make > progress. **** > > **** > > I gave this presentation again earlier this year at Numenta. It wasn’t > recorded. It looks like I might give it again this fall at NASA Ames here > in Silicon Valley as there are a few roboticists there interested in it.** > ** > > **** > > I don’t mind recording it if someone could take care of the logistics.**** > > Jeff **** > > **** > > *From:* nupic > [mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]>] > *On Behalf Of *Thompson, Jeff > *Sent:* Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:57 PM > *To:* NuPIC general mailing list. > *Subject:* [nupic-dev] Mentioned presentation on action with CLA?**** > > **** > > Hello. **** > > **** > > In the introduction for the NuPIC Hackathon Kickoff, Jeff Hawkins talks > briefly about the need for CLA integration with action. In response to a > question, he says "We haven't done experiments with motor interaction. I > have a presentation, I think about it." Is the presentation about motor > interaction with CLA available?**** > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yShNQvJEP6A&t=2188 > **** > > **** > > Thank you,**** > > - Jeff Thompson **** > > > _______________________________________________ > nupic mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.numenta.org/mailman/listinfo/nupic_lists.numenta.org**** > > ** ** > > > _______________________________________________ > nupic mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.numenta.org/mailman/listinfo/nupic_lists.numenta.org**** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > nupic mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.numenta.org/mailman/listinfo/nupic_lists.numenta.org > >
_______________________________________________ nupic mailing list [email protected] http://lists.numenta.org/mailman/listinfo/nupic_lists.numenta.org
