It seems to me that some of you have this need to continue droning on and on about the same old photographer vs birder complaints that you have little or no chance of changing especially if you continue to start off you conversations with such an adversary position.
At some point you need to learn that you need to share the outdoor space that we have left in this world with all kinds of people with all kinds of hobbies. Unless the person in question is truly breaking the law then you should leave them alone, even if there are not acting in a way that you like or that you would act. I am a birder/photographer and yes I sometimes approach birds at a closer range than some others would like but, I don't approach close enough to harass them or to hurt them and I believe that is true of most responsible photographers and birders. Before you go posting these belittling and scolding remarks about others you should look at their behavior more closely and think about are they really doing anything "wrong" or just something that you would not do. And also think about what good your comments will have in this never ending battle of who is more right in their pursuit of their hobby. If you think that by berating a person on line is going to win them over to your way of thinking or that by continuing to perpetrate this us and them attitude will somehow make them say "oh ya he is right and I should change" they you really should take some courses in human psychology. And also, why is it that all those that just love to yell at a "photographer" for what they consider harassing behavior applaud the behavior of folks in their own community that do things like capturing birds to put a band or tag on them. It would seem to me that this activity is at least or more distressing to a bird than the mere taking of it's photo!!!!! On 12/2/2013 1:28 PM, Mike Wasilco wrote: > Is it any better when a birder flushes a bird for something even more > ephemeral as a slightly better look. > Lets all be thankful that birding has evolved from the days of > Audubon, when it was done through the barrel of a shotgun rather than > the lenses of cameras or binos. > > Michael R. Wasilco > Regional Wildlife Manager > NYS Department of Environmental Conservation > Region 8 Bureau of Wildlife > 6274 East Avon-Lima Road > Avon, NY 14414 > (585)226-5460 > >>> John Laver <eart...@gmail.com> 12/2/2013 1:22 PM >>> > IMO, flushing any wildlife for something as ephemeral and trivial as a > photograph is certainly tasteless and at times harmful harassment. I > mean, does the world really and truly need the 154,456,306th "amazing > close up shot of a Snowy Owl"? Really? Most of this photography falls > in the trophy category no? These are protected species for a reason. A > wise and humane field ethic ought to be respectful of these creatures > natural dignity and right to be left alone. Long lens and patience > will get most folk a nice memento. Give the birds some room. > > John Laver > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 1:03 PM, John Cancalosi <jjcpurav...@gmail.com > <mailto:jjcpurav...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > As a lowly photographer ,(not the one in question), I am grateful > for yet another reminder that I, and those like me, are > inextricably wallowing in a Stygian morass of moral terpitude, > while those of a higher calling look down in righteuos judgement > upon our nefarious activities, with both of their feet firmly > planted on the immutable, lofty pinnacles of moral high ground. > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:43 AM, McIntyre, Annie (LI) > <annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov <mailto:annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov>> > wrote: > > Folks let’s not do this AGAIN. Photogs vs birders… we’ve all > seen offenders on both sides. It’s a pleasure reading this > list to hear about the birds that are around, but not so much > the squabbles. Better done in private conversation. > > Good birding! > > Annie McIntyre > > *From:*bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu > <mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu> > [mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu > <mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu>] *On > Behalf Of *Lake, Thomas R > *Sent:* Sunday, December 01, 2013 9:38 AM > *To:* Meena Madhav Haribal; NYSBIRDS-L > *Subject:* RE:[nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must > have left becuase of yell > > *"If the photographer was approaching very cautiously and did > not make the owl scared of him then he has not done anything > wrong except he has approached closer."* > > *Buy better optics! Getting closer is */*NEVER*/*the answer.* > > *Tom Lake* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu > <mailto:bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu> > [bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu > <mailto:bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu>] On Behalf > Of Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edu > <mailto:m...@cornell.edu>] > *Sent:* Sunday, December 01, 2013 8:49 AM > *To:* NYSBIRDS-L > *Subject:* [nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must > have left becuase of yell > > Hello all, > > Bob Adamo wrote this and I have highlighted his reactions! > > Subject: 1 Snowy, + 1 terrible photographer = 1 stressed bird > + 1 call to the cops ! > From: robert adamo <radamo4...@gmail.com > <mailto:radamo4...@gmail.com>> > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 22:42:29 -0500 > X-Message-Number: 13 > > " I stopped, got out of my car, and *yelled to** > *him to stop, that what he was doing was against the law**. He > heard me and > dismissed me. I then took his license plate #, and called the > police. I > *called out to him again, he listened to all I said, and > proceeded to move** > *closer to the bird, after telling me "there are no signs > saying I can't** ". > While I was still on the phone, the snowy took off, heading > west. The > police said they were responding, and armed with the plate # and > description of the idiot's SUV, they might catch up to him ! > > I felt I must say something here. If the photographer was > approaching very cautiously and did not make the owl scared of > him then he has not done anything wrong except he has > approached closer. Sometimes animals can tolerate non-scary > humans and permit them to go close enough. So it is better to > observe photographers behavior and the animal's reaction > before being officious and call police. All you know the bird > must have got disturbed by your (Bob Adamo's) yelling at him > and all the following activities as probably the owl perceived > it as two encounters approaching him/her. > > I have observed birders, including those who call themselves > as experts do all sort of things, for example, chasing a tired > migratory bird till they have had satisfied look. Oh! They > seem to have right because they are birders and not > photographers. So birders have right to do whatever they feel > is right even though the birds may be stressed for example by > continuously playing playbacks (Oh boy! how many of those I > have seen). I have had amazing experiences when I have > approached the birds or animals very cautiously and slowly in > a non-threatening way. They even have kind of responded to me > in a positive way. So by being closer if you are not > threatening the subjects of your interest then there is > nothing wrong as long as you know when and where to stop. > > The knee-jerk reaction of being closer equals threatening > birds is a wrong notion. So be careful of your own reactions. > And also have patience to observe the behavior of the > photographers before you decide to take any actions! So best > thing is if someone is photographing a bird is to leave the > location ASAP for the photographer to get a good photo as he > has approached the bird before you have! > > Meena > > PS: I am not a bird photographer, though occasionally I shoot > birds but mostly insect photographer where the insects have > let me approach them as close as a centimeter and still they > have not flown away and shown amazing behaviors! > > Meena Haribal > > Ithaca NY 14850 > > 42.429007,-76.47111 > > http://haribal.org/ > > http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/ > > -- > > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > > Welcome and Basics > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > > Rules and Information > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > > *Archives:* > > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > > -- > > -- > > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > > Welcome and Basics > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > > Rules and Information > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > > *Archives:* > > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > > -- > > -- > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > -- > > > -- > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > -- > > > > > -- > John L > > /Goals are dreams with deadlines./ > -- > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > -- > -- > *NYSbirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> > *Please submit your observations to **eBird* > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>*!* > -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
