Thanks George

I think we have to discuss cases where mitigstion is not needed such as oidc. 

My concern is to make the mitigation choice the AS's and not the client. 

Phil

> On Mar 15, 2016, at 09:01, George Fletcher <gffle...@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> I understand the benefit of having the client specify where it wants to 
> present the token. However, in general, the client knows which kind of 
> resource it's going to connect to (even if it doesn't know the exact 
> endpoint). For example, if the client speaks PortableContacts, then it can 
> potentially discover any PortableContact RS and attempt to get authorization 
> to access the endpoints, but the client can't connect to the mail RS because 
> it's not coded to work with those endpoints.
> 
> Therefore, the client has an understanding of the protocol of the RS and can 
> possibly discover related endpoints (what webfinger was really designed for) 
> but it can't support some random new protocol. As I wrote in my response to 
> John Bradley, I believe audience binding should use an abstract identifier 
> not an API endpoint.
> 
> Thanks,
> George
> 
>> On 3/15/16 11:40 AM, Phil Hunt wrote:
>> Regarding 2.
>> 
>> The bound config spec makes no such requirement of knowing the and its path 
>> structure.  
>> 
>> If you feel that you have other security measures and that clients will 
>> always have the proper AS, then you can wildcard the whole resource 
>> parameter.  It still might be advisable to at least check that your clients 
>> are using a URL of the form https://*.aol.com/* or https://*.partner.com/*.
>> 
>> The benefit is that at least you know the client is intending to wield the 
>> token somewhere in your domain or your partner’s domain. as opposed to 
>> something like news.aol.myevildomain.com.
>> 
>> The difference here is that security remains the responsibility of the 
>> service provider in all cases.  The check is up to the service provider 
>> rather than the client. This means that we don’t have to rely on trusting 
>> that the client developer bothered to check the configuration (as in other 
>> proposals that modify OAuth protocol itself) — we know well they won’t 
>> because they won’t have to. The server side validation is trivial.  I’m not 
>> sure how much easier this can be.  
>> 
>> Phil
>> 
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.h...@oracle.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2016, at 8:09 AM, George Fletcher <gffle...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I worry about two directions I see in this thread...
>>> 
>>> 1. Client's accessing resources dynamically so that discovery is required 
>>> to know the correct AS, etc. This is pretty much the classic use case for 
>>> UMA and I'd rather not re-invent the wheel.
>>> 
>>> 2. Creating a tight coupling between RS and AS such that RS endpoint 
>>> changes must be continually communicated to the AS. If an RS supports 
>>> multiple AS's then the RS has to deal with "guaranteed" delivery. The AS 
>>> needs an endpoint to receive such communications. If not dynamic via APIs, 
>>> then deployment of the new RS is bound by the associated AS's getting and 
>>> deploying the new endpoints. Can both endpoints of the RS be supported 
>>> within the AS for some period of time, etc. This is an operation nightmare 
>>> and almost assuredly going to go wrong in production.
>>> 
>>> Maybe an OAuth2 "audience binding" spec is what's needed for those 
>>> deployments that require this. I believe that is what John Bradley is 
>>> suggesting.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> George
>>> 
>>>> On 3/14/16 7:29 PM, Hans Zandbelt wrote:
>>>> +1, I've found the very same in OAuth deployments that I was involved in; 
>>>> the hard part is to give names and descriptions to these concepts so that 
>>>> they cover all use cases and can be applied unambiguously 
>>>> 
>>>> Hans. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/14/16 10:44 PM, Justin Richer wrote: 
>>>>> I agree that this is valuable, and not just for PoP. In all honesty, 
>>>>> it’s not even really required for PoP to function in many cases — it’s 
>>>>> just an optimization for one particular kind of key distribution 
>>>>> mechanism in that case. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the years of deployment experience with OAuth 2, I think we’ve really 
>>>>> got three different kinds of things that currently get folded into 
>>>>> “scope” that we might want to try separating out better: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   - What things do I want to access? (photos, profile) 
>>>>>   - What actions do I want to take on these things? (read, write, delete) 
>>>>>   - How long do I want these tokens to work? 
>>>>> (offline_access/refresh_token, one time use, next hour, etc) 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the first one is close to the audience/resource parameters that 
>>>>> have been bandied about a few times, including in the current token 
>>>>> exchange document. We should be consistent across drafts in that regard. 
>>>>> The second is more traditional scope-ish. The third has been patched in 
>>>>> with things like “offline_access” in certain APIs. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just another vector to think about if we’re going to be adding things 
>>>>> like “audience” or “resource” or both to the token requests. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   — Justin 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 6:26 PM, John Bradley <ve7...@ve7jtb.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:ve7...@ve7jtb.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes I will work on another proposal for allowing clients to specify 
>>>>>> what resource they want a token for and providing the meta-data to the 
>>>>>> client about the resources that a token is valid for. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We have part of it in the POP key distribution spec and talked about 
>>>>>> separating it, as it is used more places than just for assigning keys. 
>>>>>> I know some AS use different token formats for different RS so are 
>>>>>> all-ready needing to pass the resource in the request to avoid making 
>>>>>> a mess of scopes. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John B. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 7:17 PM, Phil Hunt (IDM) <phil.h...@oracle.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Inline 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Phil 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 14:13, John Bradley <ve7...@ve7jtb.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:ve7...@ve7jtb.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We had two mandates.  One was to provide a spec for AS metadata. 
>>>>>>>> The other was to mitigate the client mixup attack.  The request was 
>>>>>>>> to do the latter without requiring the former for clients that don’t 
>>>>>>>> otherwise need discovery.
>>>>>>> There is no mandate for any of this. See 
>>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/oauth/charters?item=charter-oauth-2016-01-22.txt
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Returning the issuer and client_id from the authorization endpoint 
>>>>>>>> and the client checking them can be done by the client without 
>>>>>>>> discovery.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How does this address the issue of whether the client is talking to 
>>>>>>> the wrong endpoint? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Any client that has the resource and issuer hard coded probably 
>>>>>>>> doesn’t need discovery.
>>>>>>> We agree 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One of the things that a client will need discovery for is to find 
>>>>>>>> the RS, so requiring the client to know the RS URI before getting 
>>>>>>>> the AS config seems backwards to me.
>>>>>>> How can you make an assumption on order? You seem to be conflating 
>>>>>>> authentication with authorization by assuming the identity drives 
>>>>>>> what the resource is. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are lots of applications that require user rights but are not 
>>>>>>> identify centric. For example a document service. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Unless the client tells the AS where it intends to use the token we 
>>>>>>>> will be leaving a security hole because the bearer tokens will have 
>>>>>>>> too loose an audience if they have one at all.
>>>>>>> This is the biggest risk we have IMHO. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> True you are telling the AS (Webfinger service) what the RS is but 
>>>>>>>> that is not at a place that is useful in the token production process.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This has nothing to do with token production. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What we want to ensure is whether an honest client is correctly 
>>>>>>> configured and has not been mislead - eg by a phishing page. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I also think there are use cases where the AS doesn’t know all the 
>>>>>>>> possible RS.   That is not something that a out of band check can 
>>>>>>>> address.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> May be. Lets identify them. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There are also cases where a token might be good at multiple RS 
>>>>>>>> endpoints intentionally.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  In your solution the client would need to make a discovery request 
>>>>>>>> for each endpoint.
>>>>>>> Sure. Otherwise how would it know if there is one AS or a pool of AS 
>>>>>>> servers assigned to each instance? 
>>>>>>>> Those requests lack the context of who the client and resource owner 
>>>>>>>> are.  I think that will be a problem in some                           
>>>>>>>> use cases.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Not sure I agree. This is about discovering a valid set of endpoints. 
>>>>>>> For mitm, we mainly want to check the hostname is correct. If a 
>>>>>>> client chooses evil.com <http://evil.com/>                         the 
>>>>>>> cert can be valid and 
>>>>>>> TLS will pass. How does it otherwise know it is supposed to talk to 
>>>>>>> res.example.com <http://res.example.com/>? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If this is added to the token endpoint it would be checked when code 
>>>>>>>> or refresh are exchanged, not every time the token is used.
>>>>>>> Your proposal requires rhe client to check. I am not clear how the AS 
>>>>>>> can know the exact uri. It is far easier to validate than to lookup 
>>>>>>> since as you say the client may be authorized to use multiple ASs. 
>>>>>>>> With a out of band check the client would never know if a RS was 
>>>>>>>> removed/revoked.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Not sure that is in scope. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> None of the current proposals address this issue. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don’t see checking when refreshing a token as something that is a 
>>>>>>>> huge burden.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Still its a lot more than once. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Why don't you draft another alternative? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If the server wants to do the check on it’s side then we could 
>>>>>>>> require the client to send the RS URI in the token request. that way 
>>>>>>>> you really know the client is not going to get a token for the wrong 
>>>>>>>> RS endpoint. 
>>>>>>>> If you check out of band in discovery you really have no idea if the 
>>>>>>>> client is checking.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the new webfinger draft, the client isn't checking. The service 
>>>>>>> provider simply does not disclose oauth information to misconfigured 
>>>>>>> clients. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> John B. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.h...@oracle.com 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks to Mike and John for their feedback.  I’ll take each in turn: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mike, 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regarding your suggested amendments 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Item 1: Returning the config URL would create two problems. One,it 
>>>>>>>>> makes bound discovery a two-step process - that adds complexity. 
>>>>>>>>>  It seems far simpler to mandate TLS (which I think it already does 
>>>>>>>>> in the security considerations). 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The two-step process allows the current discovery process to 
>>>>>>>>> continue. I disagree with this. This is why                           
>>>>>>>>>   I put forward an 
>>>>>>>>> “alternate" draft that is almost the same but simply adds the check 
>>>>>>>>> before returning the configuration data.  I                           
>>>>>>>>>   worry that  developers 
>>>>>>>>> would have no incentive to do the two-step approach. They would 
>>>>>>>>> just start at step 2 which in turn puts AS’s at risk of exposing 
>>>>>>>>> tokens because it works. This makes OAuth promiscuous. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regarding existing implementations. Most of those implementations 
>>>>>>>>> are for OIDC.  I think it makes sense for OIDF to continue use of 
>>>>>>>>> OIDC's discovery spec because the UserInfo endpoint is well defined 
>>>>>>>>> and the likelihood of a client mis-informed about the resource 
>>>>>>>>> endpoint is not there.  IMO This does not                             
>>>>>>>>> apply to the broader 
>>>>>>>>> OAuth community. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Item 2:  It may be appropriate to have a separate configuration 
>>>>>>>>> registry specification, but I think we should hold off until we 
>>>>>>>>> have a complete solution and then make the decision what drafts 
>>>>>>>>> should exist and how many pieces.  A big concern is the perceived 
>>>>>>>>> complexity of multiple solutions and multiple drafts. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As to John Bradley’s comments: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Re: Discovery is the wrong place to mitigate threats. 
>>>>>>>>> I’m confused by this.  Our mandate was to solve a security threat 
>>>>>>>>> by having a discovery specification to prevent clients being 
>>>>>>>>> mis-lead about endpoints (of which resource service is one) in an 
>>>>>>>>> oauth protected exchange.  Maybe what you mean is we should not use 
>>>>>>>>> .well-known of any kind and we should just create a “/Config” 
>>>>>>>>> endpoint to OAuth? 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Re: Your proposal for MITM mitigation 
>>>>>>>>> You propose that instead the resource endpoint check should be in 
>>>>>>>>> the oauth protocol itself.  The difference is that validation is 
>>>>>>>>> transferred back to the client to get it right. As well, without 
>>>>>>>>> the client informing the AS, I can’t see a way for the AS to know 
>>>>>>>>> what endpoint the client is using.  The webfinger approach does 
>>>>>>>>> this once and only requires that the host name be checked in many 
>>>>>>>>> cases. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As a principle, the members have discussed many times that the AS 
>>>>>>>>> service should do validation when possible — this was particularly 
>>>>>>>>> true at the Germany meeting when this came up. This is why I prefer 
>>>>>>>>> the client tell the service provider what it intends to do and the 
>>>>>>>>> service provider can fail that request immediately if necessary. We 
>>>>>>>>> don’t have to depend on the developer getting the spec correct to 
>>>>>>>>> fail the correct way. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I worry that adding more parameters to the authz and token protocol 
>>>>>>>>> flows increases complexity and attack surface. It also means per 
>>>>>>>>> authorization validation has to take place                            
>>>>>>>>>  vs. a one-time 
>>>>>>>>> validation at config time.  Placing it in the configuration lookup 
>>>>>>>>> phase (whether via web finger or just a special OAuth endpoint) 
>>>>>>>>> seems more appropriate and far less complex - as the request itself 
>>>>>>>>> is simple and has only one parameter. Here we are not considered 
>>>>>>>>> about legitimacy of the client. we’re just concerned with the issue 
>>>>>>>>> "has the client been correctly informed?” 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That said, it may be that when we consider all the use cases, some 
>>>>>>>>> combination of AS protocol and discovery may be both needed. I’m 
>>>>>>>>> not ready to make conclusions about this.  The current 
>>>>>>>>> oauth-discovery spec seems to put future generic clients at risk 
>>>>>>>>> and that is my primary concern. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Phil 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> @independentid 
>>>>>>>>> www.independentid.com <http://www.independentid.com/> 
>>>>>>>>> phil.h...@oracle.com <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2016, at 10:28 PM, Mike Jones 
>>>>>>>>>> <michael.jo...@microsoft.com <mailto:michael.jo...@microsoft.com>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote: 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for posting this, Phil.  It provides a concrete example of 
>>>>>>>>>> a way that protected resource discovery                              
>>>>>>>>>>  could be added to 
>>>>>>>>>> authorization server metadata discovery, and as such, should 
>>>>>>>>>> provide useful input for working group discussions on this topic. 
>>>>>>>>>> It’s always great when someone takes the time to write an actual 
>>>>>>>>>> draft that can be examined and implemented, and I appreciate you 
>>>>>>>>>> doing that. 
>>>>>>>>>> The content of your draft points out that                            
>>>>>>>>>>    there appears to be 
>>>>>>>>>> complete agreement on what the authorization server metadata 
>>>>>>>>>> format should be, which is great!  I’ll note that Section 3 of 
>>>>>>>>>> draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00 titled “Authorization Server 
>>>>>>>>>> Metadata” is an exact copy of Section 2 of 
>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-oauth-discovery-01 (with the same title), modulo 
>>>>>>>>>> applying a correction suggested by the working group.  To me this 
>>>>>>>>>> suggests that the authorization server metadata definitions in 
>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-oauth-discovery (which is now the whole normative 
>>>>>>>>>> content of the draft) are clearly ready for standardization, since 
>>>>>>>>>> even your alternative proposal includes them verbatim. 
>>>>>>>>>> Reading your draft, the problem I have with it is that you are 
>>>>>>>>>> returning the AS metadata only as a WebFinger response, rather 
>>>>>>>>>> than as an https-protected resource published by the authorization 
>>>>>>>>>> server.  The choice to only return this via WebFinger makes your 
>>>>>>>>>> draft incompatible with most deployed implementations of OAuth 
>>>>>>>>>> metadata, including the 22 implementations using it listed 
>>>>>>>>>> athttp://openid.net/certification/(see the “OP Config” column in 
>>>>>>>>>> the table) andOAuth 2.0 libraries such as Microsoft’s “ADAL” 
>>>>>>>>>> library, which uses the metadata path for client configuration. 
>>>>>>>>>> Without having ASs provide the metadata as an https-protected 
>>>>>>>>>> resource, implementations such as ADAL can’t use it for client 
>>>>>>>>>> configuration as the currently do. 
>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, I would request that you make these minor revisions to 
>>>>>>>>>> your draft and republish, so as to provide a unified way forward 
>>>>>>>>>> that is compatible with all known existing OAuth Discovery 
>>>>>>>>>> deployments: 
>>>>>>>>>> 1.Modify your section 2 “Authorization Server WebFinger Discovery” 
>>>>>>>>>> to have the WebFinger request return the issuer identifier for the 
>>>>>>>>>> AS as the “WebFinger “rel” value, rather                             
>>>>>>>>>>   than returning the 
>>>>>>>>>> metadata values by value as the “properties” value. 
>>>>>>>>>> 2.Reference the metadata definitions from Section 2 of 
>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-oauth-discovery, rather than duplicating them in your 
>>>>>>>>>> Section 3. 
>>>>>>>>>> That would have the advantage of paring your draft down to only 
>>>>>>>>>> the new things that it proposes, enabling them to be more clearly 
>>>>>>>>>> understood and evaluated on their own merits.  I look forward to 
>>>>>>>>>> the discussions of ways of performing additional kinds of OAuth 
>>>>>>>>>> discovery, and consider your draft a valuable input to those 
>>>>>>>>>> discussions. 
>>>>>>>>>>                                                           Best 
>>>>>>>>>> wishes, 
>>>>>>>>>>                                                           -- Mike 
>>>>>>>>>> *From:*OAuth [mailto:oauth-boun...@ietf.org]*On Behalf Of*John 
>>>>>>>>>> Bradley 
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:*Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:45 PM 
>>>>>>>>>> *To:*Phil Hunt <phil.h...@oracle.com <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:*oauth <oauth@ietf.org <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:*Re: [OAUTH-WG] New Version Notification for 
>>>>>>>>>> draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00.txt 
>>>>>>>>>> As I have told Phil off list. 
>>>>>>>>>> Discovery is the wrong place to try and provide security against 
>>>>>>>>>> man in the middle attacks on the RS. 
>>>>>>>>>> This requires the client to know what the RS URI is before 
>>>>>>>>>> retrieving the information on the AS Configuration. 
>>>>>>>>>> The proposal Mike and I have been working on requires the client 
>>>>>>>>>> to have a notion of what API it is looking                           
>>>>>>>>>>     for and retrieve the 
>>>>>>>>>> .well-known file for that API from the issuer.   That allows a 
>>>>>>>>>> protocol like Connect to register its own config file that can 
>>>>>>>>>> point to the RS. 
>>>>>>>>>> If the API specific well known is not available the client can try 
>>>>>>>>>> the default oauth-server one. 
>>>>>>>>>> That then allows us to deal with restricting where AT are 
>>>>>>>>>> presented as part of the protocol rather then dragging discovery 
>>>>>>>>>> in as a requirement. 
>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion the resource the token is targeted to should be 
>>>>>>>>>> separated from the scope and returned as part of the meta-data 
>>>>>>>>>> about the AT along with scopes granted and expiry time.   We 
>>>>>>>>>> should also have a input parameter for resources so that a client 
>>>>>>>>>> can restrict tokens issued to a subset of the ones granted by the 
>>>>>>>>>> refresh token.   It would then also be possible to ask a AS for a 
>>>>>>>>>> token for a unregistered RS and have the AS produce a JWT access 
>>>>>>>>>> token with the resource as an audience if policy allows. 
>>>>>>>>>> That however was supposed to be dealt with as part of the mixed up 
>>>>>>>>>> client set of mitigations. 
>>>>>>>>>> In that the goal was to mitigate the attacks by returning 
>>>>>>>>>> meta-data about the tokens, and not to require discovery. 
>>>>>>>>>> We intend to return “iss” and “cleint_id” for the code, and I 
>>>>>>>>>> intend to discuss at the F2F returning resource for AT as well. 
>>>>>>>>>> Those mitigate the attack. 
>>>>>>>>>> I will continue to resist mixing up discovery of configuration 
>>>>>>>>>> meta-data with mitigation of the attacks. 
>>>>>>>>>> We return meta-data about the tokens now, because AT are opaque to 
>>>>>>>>>> the client, we neglected to include some                             
>>>>>>>>>>   of the information for 
>>>>>>>>>> the client needs to be secure.   We just need to add that in to 
>>>>>>>>>> the existing flows. 
>>>>>>>>>> While Phil’s proposal is easier for the AS                           
>>>>>>>>>>     to implement as an add 
>>>>>>>>>> on, it puts more of a burden on the client needing to potentially 
>>>>>>>>>> change how it stores the relationships between AS and RS to 
>>>>>>>>>> prevent compromise, I think the solution                             
>>>>>>>>>>   should be biased towards 
>>>>>>>>>> simplicity on the client side. 
>>>>>>>>>> If we return the resources as part of the existing meta data the 
>>>>>>>>>> client checks that against the resource it intends to send the 
>>>>>>>>>> token to and if it is not in the list then it can’t send the 
>>>>>>>>>> token.  Simple check every time it gets a                            
>>>>>>>>>>    new AT, no optionality. 
>>>>>>>>>> I am not saying anything new Nat has been advocating basically 
>>>>>>>>>> this for some time, and dis submit a draft.   I prefer to return 
>>>>>>>>>> the info in the existing format rather than as link headers,  but 
>>>>>>>>>> that is the largest difference between what Nat and I are saying 
>>>>>>>>>> with respect to resource. 
>>>>>>>>>> That is the core of my problem with Phil’s draft. 
>>>>>>>>>> I guess we will need to have a long conversation in BA. 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards 
>>>>>>>>>> John B. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     On Mar 13, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.h...@oracle.com 
>>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>>>>>>     This draft is a proposed alternate proposal for 
>>>>>>>>>>     draft-ietf-oauth-discovery.  As such, it contains the same 
>>>>>>>>>>     registry for OAuth Config Metadata as                            
>>>>>>>>>>    the authors believe that 
>>>>>>>>>>     both solutions are not required, or depending on WG discussion 
>>>>>>>>>>     they will be merged. The intent is to provide a simple 
>>>>>>>>>>     complete draft for consideration. 
>>>>>>>>>>     How it works... 
>>>>>>>>>>     Given that a client has previously discovered an OAuth 
>>>>>>>>>>     protected resource, the bound configuration method allows a 
>>>>>>>>>>     client to return the configuration for an oauth authorization 
>>>>>>>>>>     server that can issue tokens for the resource URI specified by 
>>>>>>>>>>     the client.  The AS is not required to be in the same domain. 
>>>>>>>>>>      The AS is however required to know if it can issue tokens for 
>>>>>>>>>>     a resource service (which presumes some agreement exists on 
>>>>>>>>>>     tokens etc). 
>>>>>>>>>>     The draft does not require that the resource exist (e.g. for 
>>>>>>>>>>     unconfigured or new user based resources). It only requires 
>>>>>>>>>>     that the AS service provider agrees it can issue tokens. 
>>>>>>>>>>     From a security perspective, returning                           
>>>>>>>>>>     the OAuth service 
>>>>>>>>>>     configuration for a specified resource URI serves to confirm 
>>>>>>>>>>     the client is in possession of a valid resource URI ensuring 
>>>>>>>>>>     the client has received a valid set of endpoints for the 
>>>>>>>>>>     resource and the associated oauth services. 
>>>>>>>>>>     I propose that the WG consider the alternate draft carefully 
>>>>>>>>>>     as well as other submissions and evaluate the broader 
>>>>>>>>>>     discovery problem before proceeding with WGLC on OAuth 
>>>>>>>>>> Discovery. 
>>>>>>>>>>     Thanks! 
>>>>>>>>>>     Phil 
>>>>>>>>>>     @independentid 
>>>>>>>>>>     www.independentid.com <http://www.independentid.com/> 
>>>>>>>>>>     phil.h...@oracle.com <mailto:phil.h...@oracle.com> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         Begin forwarded message: 
>>>>>>>>>>         *From:*internet-dra...@ietf.org 
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
>>>>>>>>>>         *Subject: New Version Notification for 
>>>>>>>>>>         draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00.txt* 
>>>>>>>>>>         *Date:*March 13, 2016 at 3:53:37 PM PDT 
>>>>>>>>>>         *To:*"Phil Hunt" <phil.h...@yahoo.com 
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:phil.h...@yahoo.com>>, "Anthony Nadalin" 
>>>>>>>>>>         <tony...@microsoft.com <mailto:tony...@microsoft.com>>, 
>>>>>>>>>>         "Tony Nadalin" <tony...@microsoft.com 
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:tony...@microsoft.com>>                              
>>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         A new version of I-D, draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00.txt 
>>>>>>>>>>         has been successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to 
>>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>>>         IETF repository. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         Name:draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config 
>>>>>>>>>>         Revision:00 
>>>>>>>>>>         Title:OAuth 2.0 Bound Configuration Lookup 
>>>>>>>>>>         Document date:2016-03-13 
>>>>>>>>>>         Group:Individual Submission 
>>>>>>>>>>         Pages:22 
>>>>>>>>>>         URL: 
>>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00.txt
>>>>>>>>>>         Status: 
>>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config/ 
>>>>>>>>>>         Htmlized: 
>>>>>>>>>>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-oauth-bound-config-00 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         Abstract: 
>>>>>>>>>>           This specification defines a mechanism for the client of 
>>>>>>>>>>         an OAuth 2.0 
>>>>>>>>>>           protected resource service to obtain the configuration 
>>>>>>>>>>         details of an 
>>>>>>>>>>           OAuth 2.0 authorization server that is capable of 
>>>>>>>>>>         authorizing access 
>>>>>>>>>>           to a specific resource service.  The information 
>>>>>>>>>>         includes the OAuth 
>>>>>>>>>>           2.0 component endpoint location URIs and as well as 
>>>>>>>>>>         authorization 
>>>>>>>>>>           server capabilities. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the 
>>>>>>>>>>         time of submission 
>>>>>>>>>>         until the htmlized version and diff are available 
>>>>>>>>>>         attools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>         The IETF Secretariat 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>>>     OAuth mailing list 
>>>>>>>>>>     OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> 
>>>>>>>>>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list 
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> 
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth                       
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>>> OAuth mailing list 
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org 
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
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>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> 
> -- 
> Chief Architect                   
> Identity Services Engineering     Work: george.fletc...@teamaol.com
> AOL Inc.                          AIM:  gffletch
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