The token response is different as this is part of the interface between AS and client, i.e. there needs to be rules in place so both parties can interoperate.
OAuth has traditionally always focused on client to AS and client to RS for interoperability and left out AS to RS from the equation. best regards, Torsten. Am 13. Juni 2023, 13:13 +0200 schrieb Oliva Fernandez, Jorge <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org>: > Ok thanks, > > And in the response of the /token endpoint should be inside the > “authorization_details” as described in the section 7? > > Best regards. > > From: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of > "torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org" > <torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org> > Date: Tuesday, 13 June 2023 at 11:45 > To: "torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org" > <torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org>, > "Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org" > <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Oliva Fernandez, > Jorge" <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org> > Cc: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>, Brian Campbell > <bcampbell=40pingidentity....@dmarc.ietf.org>, Kai Lehmann > <kai.lehmann=401und1...@dmarc.ietf.org> > Subject: [EXT]Re: [OAUTH-WG] RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > CAUTION: This message is from an EXTERNAL sender – be vigilant, particularly > with links and attachments. If you suspect it, report it immediately using > the phishing button. > Am 13. Juni 2023, 12:02 +0200 schrieb Oliva Fernandez, Jorge > <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org>: > > > quote_type > > Hi Torsten, > > > > Thanks for your answer but this seems still very confused to me, so just > > let me put a real use case for RAR and see if I can understand correctly, > > suppose that Open Banking (never mind the country) replace the lodging > > intent pattern with PAR + RAR, an as already covered by OB, the debtor > > account is selected in the Authorization Process where the customer > > authorize a payment/transfer… Where should the AS return the > > “debtorAccount” field in the introspect in order to allow the RS (or a API > > gateway) validate the authorization of the operation, inside the > > “authorization_details” or as a root field in the JSON response? > both are valid options > > quote_type > > > > Best regards. > > > > From: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of > > "torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org" > > <torsten=40lodderstedt....@dmarc.ietf.org> > > Date: Tuesday, 13 June 2023 at 10:19 > > To: "Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org" > > <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org> > > Cc: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>, Brian Campbell > > <bcampbell=40pingidentity....@dmarc.ietf.org>, Kai Lehmann > > <kai.lehmann=401und1...@dmarc.ietf.org> > > Subject: [EXT]Re: [OAUTH-WG] RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > > > CAUTION: This message is from an EXTERNAL sender – be vigilant, > > particularly with links and attachments. If you suspect it, report it > > immediately using the phishing button. > > Hi, > > > > the difference between section 7 and 9 is as Kai described it. > > > > Section 7 is about additional data given to the client in the token > > response that is needed to perform the rest of the process. Figure 17, for > > example, shows how the authorization details object is enriched with the > > account numbers. The client needs this data as, otherwise, it would not > > know which resources to access. The way it happens is the enrichment of the > > authorization details, which is part of the interoperable interface between > > AS and client. > > > > Section 9, on the other hand, is about the way the AS shares data with the > > RS. This interface is internal within the AS domain and (typically) > > proprietary. So the AS does not need to share any data in the form of an > > authorization details object, it could use a completely proprietary > > structure. However, It is straight forward to share the data as they were > > passed into the authorization process (and were potentially enriched in the > > course of the authorization process). It didn’t seem to be reasonable to me > > to do the same with the debtorAccount data, es this data is purely between > > AS and RS. No-one outside of the process will see it. > > > > Bottomline: there is no issue with the examples. Section 9 just shows one > > way to implement it, you could use other ways. > > > > best regards, > > Torsten. > > Am 12. Juni 2023, 19:22 +0200 schrieb Brian Campbell > > <bcampbell=40pingidentity....@dmarc.ietf.org>: > > > quote_type > > > I think Torsten did the example with "debtorAccount" so he can maybe > > > provide more insight into what he was trying to convey with it. But I > > > interpreted it similar to Kai in it being more akin to the sub and about > > > the user's account in general rather than the specific transaction. The > > > text "selected by the user during the authorization process" does kinda > > > suggest it would be better treated as enriched authz details though. So > > > yeah, I agree that it is potentially somewhat confusing. But it's not > > > necessarily wrong or right - either can work and it's ultimately up to > > > the design of the API . > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 3:54 AM Kai Lehmann > > > <kai.lehmann=401und1...@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > quote_type > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > ok I understood your concern better now. I think the authors should be > > > > able to answer that better, but I believe it depends on whether the > > > > information the RP actually needs compared to what information a RS > > > > would need in order to fulfill the operation. For example, when a > > > > client would like to request the authorization for a SEPA mandate, the > > > > client wants to know the bank account identifier and would ask for it > > > > within the authorization_details in the request. When it comes to > > > > performing a one-time transfer to a specific creditor account, on the > > > > other hand, the client would provide the creditor account number, the > > > > amount and maybe a payment reference number. The client does not care > > > > about where the money is coming from as long as it is being transferred > > > > to the target account. However, the RS which is actually performing the > > > > transfer operation may need this. > > > > > > > > /Kai > > > > > > > > From: "Oliva Fernandez, Jorge" > > > > <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org> > > > > Date: Monday, 12. June 2023 at 11:21 > > > > To: Kai Lehmann <kai.lehm...@1und1.de>, "Oliva Fernandez, Jorge" > > > > <jorge.olivafernan...@santander.co.uk>, "oauth@ietf.org" > > > > <oauth@ietf.org> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [OAUTH-WG] RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, and thanks for your response, > > > > > > > > The thing is that in section 9.1 say this in the description of the > > > > “debtorAccount”: > > > > > > > > ”In the example, this account was not passed in the > > > > authorization_details but was selected by the user during the > > > > authorization process.” > > > > > > > > Seems for me that the “debtorAccount” meet the requiements of your > > > > sentence “The authorization details, on the other hand, contain > > > > information which the End-User authorizes interactively.” And if the > > > > “debtorAccount” has been selected in the authorization process is not > > > > this exactly what is described in section “7.1. Enriched Authorization > > > > Details in Token Response” in example of Figure 17? > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > > > > > From: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Kai Lehmann > > > > <kai.lehmann=401und1...@dmarc.ietf.org> > > > > Date: Monday, 12 June 2023 at 09:22 > > > > To: "Oliva Fernandez, Jorge" > > > > <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org>, > > > > "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org> > > > > Subject: [EXT]Re: [OAUTH-WG] RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This message is from an EXTERNAL sender – be vigilant, > > > > particularly with links and attachments. If you suspect it, report it > > > > immediately using the phishing button. > > > > Hi Oliva, > > > > > > > > I don’t see inconsistencies. As far as I understand it, the > > > > debtorAccount is information about the authenticated user account. This > > > > is information which the RS may need in order to know where the money > > > > needs to be transferred FROM. This is nothing which the End-User can > > > > change as the account is tied to the user account. It’s similar to the > > > > “sub” which is an identifier of the user account at the AS. However, > > > > the RS may not understand the sub as it only deals with bank account > > > > identifiers (IBANs). The AS does know the relation between sub and bank > > > > account of the End-User and thus can provide the bank account > > > > information of the End-User in the JWT (or Token Introspection > > > > response) to the RS. The authorization details, on the other hand, > > > > contain information which the End-User authorizes interactively. In > > > > this case, it contains the information of the bank account the money is > > > > transferred TO and of course the amount of the transferred money. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > From: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of "Oliva Fernandez, > > > > Jorge" <Jorge.OlivaFernandez=40santander.co...@dmarc.ietf.org> > > > > Date: Monday, 12. June 2023 at 10:08 > > > > To: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org> > > > > Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Any comment about this? Thanks! > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > > > > > From: "Oliva Fernandez, Jorge" <jorge.olivafernan...@santander.co.uk> > > > > Date: Friday, 2 June 2023 at 14:10 > > > > To: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org> > > > > Subject: RFC 9396 - RAR doubt about examples > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Reviewing the just releases RFC there are a couple of examples that > > > > seems incorrect or maybe I’m missing something, in section 9.1 and 9.2 > > > > appear a field “debtorAccount” outside the “authorization_details” > > > > object and in section 9.1 specify: > > > > > > > > “debtorAccount: > > > > API-specific field containing the debtor account. In the example, this > > > > account was not passed in the authorization_details but was selected by > > > > the user during the authorization process. The field user_role conveys > > > > the role the user has with respect to this particular account. In this > > > > case, they are the owner. This data is used for access control at the > > > > payment API (the RS). > > > > ” > > > > > > > > If this “debtorAccount” is the result of an “Enriched Authorization > > > > Details“ should not follow what is described in section 7.1 and be > > > > returned inside the “authorization_details” Object? > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > Emails aren't always secure, and they may be intercepted or changed > > > > after they've been sent. Santander doesn't accept liability if this > > > > happens. If you think someone may have interfered with this email, > > > > please get in touch with the sender another way. This message doesn't > > > > create or change any contract. Santander doesn't accept responsibility > > > > for damage caused by any viruses contained in this email or its > > > > attachments. Emails may be monitored. 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If you've received this email by mistake, please let the sender > > know at once that it's gone to the wrong person and then destroy it without > > copying, using, or telling anyone about its contents. > > Santander UK plc. Registered Office: 2 Triton Square, Regent's Place, > > London, NW1 3AN, United Kingdom. Registered Number 2294747. Registered in > > England and Wales. https://www.santander.co.uk. Telephone 0800 389 7000. > > Calls may be recorded or monitored. Authorised by the Prudential Regulation > > Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the > > Prudential Regulation Authority. Our Financial Services Register number is > > 106054. You can check this on the Financial Services Register by visiting > > the FCA’s website https://www.fca.org.uk/register. Santander and the flame > > logo are registered trademarks. > > Ref:[PDB#1-4B] _______________________________________________ > > OAuth mailing list > > OAuth@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > Emails aren't always secure, and they may be intercepted or changed after > they've been sent. Santander doesn't accept liability if this happens. If you > think someone may have interfered with this email, please get in touch with > the sender another way. This message doesn't create or change any contract. > Santander doesn't accept responsibility for damage caused by any viruses > contained in this email or its attachments. Emails may be monitored. If > you've received this email by mistake, please let the sender know at once > that it's gone to the wrong person and then destroy it without copying, > using, or telling anyone about its contents. > Santander UK plc. Registered Office: 2 Triton Square, Regent's Place, London, > NW1 3AN, United Kingdom. Registered Number 2294747. Registered in England and > Wales. https://www.santander.co.uk. Telephone 0800 389 7000. Calls may be > recorded or monitored. Authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and > regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation > Authority. Our Financial Services Register number is 106054. You can check > this on the Financial Services Register by visiting the FCA’s website > https://www.fca.org.uk/register. Santander and the flame logo are registered > trademarks. > > Ref:[PDB#1-4B]
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