On Aug 30, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Bob Friesenhahn <bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us>
wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, garrett.dam...@dey-sys.com wrote:
>>
>> So let me clarify:
>>
>> What is *broken* was the model of slavishly trying to follow OpenSolaris, or
>> to be an "open & free" alternative to Solaris 11,
>
> There is nothing wrong with being a follower. For desktop it is ultimately
> better to follow Linux rather than Oracle's Solaris, particularly since
> Oracle's Solaris is following Linux. An Illumos-based desktop can be
> completely successful even if it is inferior to the desktop offered by some
> other systems. Being inferior is not the same as "failure".
>
> A usable desktop allows using Illumos without purchasing multiple machines,
> and including on portable hardware.
In the modern era of virtualization, why wouldn't you do this with a
hypervisor? I run illumos on my mac -- in a vm. (You can even do this for
free with VirtualBox, although in my experience VMware offers a better
experience. VB may have fixed the pathological problem that made me steer
clear of it in the past -- I haven't looked into it recently.)
>
>> Second, and probably more significantly, the *vision* is busted. OI had *no*
>> vision except to follow Oracle's lead. Even Oracle abandoned OpenSolaris
>> and the desktop, but OI tries to muddle on with no clear "vision" about what
>> sets it apart. There is no "innovation" in OI, really. Too many people
>> want too many things from it (server, desktop, compatibility, SPARC vs.
>> x86), to the point that it can never really take the necessary steps to
>> excel at any one thing because doing so might make it worse at another. OI
>> became jack-of-all-trades, master of none.
>
> I don't think that desktop "innovation" is necessary. What is necessary is
> core functionality and availability of the major common applications (e.g.
> windowing environment, web browser, email interface, document editor).
>
> Without a usable desktop on top of Illumos (which current OpenIndiana
> provides), the other Illumos variants will suffer from diminished interest
> and popularity as mindshare continues to move away from Solaris.
That battle is *lost*. Even Linux desktop share is a tiny, tiny fraction of
the market. And at this point, even that is irrelevant -- the "desktop" as
such is almost a thing of the past -- people interact through mobile devices,
etc. Many of us still need real computers on our desktops, but the OS they run
is kind of irrelevant these days -- as long as they have the apps that we need.
Outside of hardcore users, key enabling apps are missing on illumos. Skype.
GotoMeeting. Legal DVD and Bluray support. iTunes client. TurboTax (although
there is a less functional web variant). Etc. etc. (Heck for me, the ability
to run a simulator for my R/C aircraft was a bit of a stopper.)
So, given that I have to make these scarifies, what is the *benefit* of running
illumos on a Desktop or Laptop? How does it beat MacOS X or Linux? Or even
Windows? The *sole* benefit was an 'eat your own dog food' mentality. I agree
there is value there, but the amount of sacrifice I had to make to get there
became too costly to justify the very limited value I was getting out of it.
Can you seriously have recommended OI as a viable desktop to *anyone* who
wasn't running it *solely* for the mostly emotional attachment to Solaris or
illumos? Why would I choose it over Ubuntu, for example? Or PC-BSD? Or … ?
>
> Many potential users of Illumos will simply turn away if they find out that
> they only have a character terminal for console access. If modern X11 is
> missing entirely, then only those specifically planning to do server
> deployment would even consider using it.
If someone was looking for free desktop, yes, they may be turned off by lack of
a decent modern GUI. If I viewed them as part of my target demographic, I
suppose I'd be upset by that. But since I'm not focused on developing a
modern desktop OS, I tend not to worry about them.
Notably, Sun spent gazillions trying to focus on the desktop (in order to lure
developers -- I think mostly from schools in places like China). This is why
Solaris has WiFi support (which is kind of crappy, actually), and why they paid
me for about a year to redesign the audio stack. Did it make a damn bit of
difference? No (although I had a lot of fun doing that audio work). In fact
I'd venture to say that the shift of focus from the key audience (big iron
customers who wanted all those nifty features from OpenSolaris -- like Crossbow
-- but which didn't exist in a commercially supported product) actually *cost*
Sun pretty much the entire business, and created the opportunity for Oracle to
buy the company at firesale prices.
So I stand by my earlier comments: pick something, and *excel* at it. Make a
compelling reason to differentiate yourself.
- Garrett
_______________________________________________
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
