On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Christian Lohmaier <cl...@openoffice.org>wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippka <c...@lippka.com> wrote: > > As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of > > creating > > a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more > time > > coding > > and less time community building. > > The problem is that all the community building efforts that were > slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when > Oracle took over. > I dont agree and I can name many people that were greatly with the community from Sun, for example Rafaella Braconi and Rosana Ardilla and another member in the Marketing list that wanted to build the right efforts to create commerrcials like the one from Firefox. The key however is that community building is hard and even if people tell you that they will do community things, even thought they sound fun, things never picked up. I do remember many efforts initiatived from Oracle/Sun that fell into deft silence. Others that didnt but anyway people were making the effort. > It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to > form, and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF > is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the > contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were > just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle > all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your > parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that > attitude. > At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was > stagnation on OOo. > > And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around. > And as Mathias wrote "go back to real work". But where is that info > and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure > questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not > public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will > it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with > access, but instead you complain about how "evil" TDF and LO is? > Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with. > > OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies > and government agencies. OOo had the "foot in the door". Those who > played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open > source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of > sticking with MS-Office. > Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that > trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that > to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is > usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the > apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it. > > TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related > work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an > inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream > on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo > is considere "upstream". No matter whether you have to trademark or > not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs > to be removed. > > Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from > apache-OOo sources. > > And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much > time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves, > press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to > write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get > in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As > simple as that. > > TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's > move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir (& others) didn't stop to attack > TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not > stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes. > And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the > TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could > not take that crap anymore. > > And last but not least about the user-feeling: > Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who > promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do > it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did > change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even > got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching. > > So get down of your "I'm a developer" horse any you'll see that > listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do. > > If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen > is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time. > But that's the wrong attitude. > > But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So > no worries about being "distracted from doing real work" by me again, > at least not in this thread. > > ciao > Christian > -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
